Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Hello Everyone,

It's great to be a member of this forum and thank you Peter for this wonderful resource.

I have a couple of tiny but aggravating scratches through the gold paint on the backside of the lower guard. The guitar was built 10/97. I'm after some advice on the best way to make this go away. First I'd like to know what paint to use, and secondly what technique. Experience suggests that spraying several light coats of a matching paint would be the wise choice as I'd probably make a mess with any kind of touch-up brush. Light coats to not disturb the original paint. And how about prep? And is it best to shoot only the scratched area, or the entire lower guard? Will there be an issue with over-spray on the edges if I spray from the inside out?
This guitar is one fine piece of work and damn if I'm gonna screw it up! Any advice, experiences or warnings would be of value.

Thank you

I have touched up pickguards in the past, and TRCs as well. In all honesty, on white guards and TRCs, Liquid Paper seems to be a great match. But I digress.

If I were you, I would find as close a matching color as I possibly could, mix it very well, and apply just a small dab on the affected areas with a brush. It will blend in well and while they may be just slightly noticeable to someone who is aware of them, it will look great, as long as the color matches.

I suppose you could also overspray the back of the guard, but to me this is a little overkill. If you do, you could either mask the edges, or you could simply direct your spray vertically over the top of the guard, and when things are fully dry, carefully use a dab of auto wax or polishing compound on a rag to rub overspray from the edge. Rub the dab into the rag so the rag is just damp with it, don't hit the edge with a blob of wax/compound. I have done this in the past when painting some custom gold guards I have made, and used a similar trick on auto trim. Works quite well.

Paul, if you are reading: What do you use to cut/shape your guards?

Thanks for the ideas Bob. In the mean time I wrote Tony D. at Pickguardian and he responded with the following concerning color matching:

• The closest match to the TP 660 I have found is a Chrysler color called Gold Dust Metallic. It is a slightly coppery gold. It's getting hard to find since it's an old color, but Plasti-Kote still sells a touch-up color. The spray is CC 9088. Lacquer usually melts together, but you may still see an ouline where the scratches are.

I've read elsewhere in this forum where people have suggested using Testors model paint, but those posts were quite old. Maybe Paul could chime in with some ideas.

Easy questions first: I have two ways of making guards, whether they are white, clear or black. Some guards, I have laser cutter graphics files on. These still must have the edges sanded and scraped, so in all not much time is saved. For all guards, I retain a router pattern which is handmade of MDF. The guards are first cut using a band saw, to within about 1/16" of the outline of the finished guard. Then the roughcut acrylic piece is affixed to the MDF pattern with double-stick tape and a straight-cut router bit with guide bearing is used, on a router table, to take the final cut. Router-cut guards only need paint--the edges are already slightly frosty, with a nice machined look.

The issue of touching up gold guards came up repeatedly when I was making the 75th Anniversary guards. As you know, these were made of clear acrylic which was laser-engraved with the 75th Anniversary logo, and then back-painted in a specially-mixed gold color. Although great care was taken in wrapping and protecting these parts for shipping between my shop in SF and RIC in Santa Ana, at first we had issues with some scratching occurring. Usually these scratches were only through the gold paint, and not into the acrylic itself.

Because Rick gold guards are second-surface painted (which means they are painted on the back side, and viewed through the thickness of the acrylic, from the front), a good color match, even using the factory gold paint, is not possible. It doesn't matter if you paint with a brush for tiny touch-ups, or a spray gun, it simply does not match; this has to do with how the paint lies on the surface before it dries. My method for touching up the 75th Anniversary guards and TRCs was, simply, to chemically strip the old paint from the guard--even for the tiniest imperfections--and re spray the entire guard from scratch.

On to the RIC-manufactured guards (like the Petty in question). The paint used on these and all RIC gold guards, is a commercial urethane formulation that will not strip without the acrylic being destroyed or seriously damaged in process. I do not have a formula for this gold, incidentally, though I do have a close match.

It is often the case that scratches through the gold on a RIC-made guard, also go into the acrylic substrate. This means that, even if a perfect match was obtained, and the second-surface issues had been dealt with, the scratch would still show after painting due to its 3D nature.

The Chrysler gold that Tony mentions, I've mixed up using factory formulas in my mixing bank, and it really is not too close. Spraying second surface acrylic with a rattle-can is tricky. You could probable get a reasonable good-looking guard if you heat the can and spray in very light passes over a few hours' time span, but it would not match a factory-sprayed guard. And, since the factory doesn't use lacquer, this stuff is unlikely to melt together and knit with the old paint.

Testors or Pactra model paints will not allow you to get a suitable bronze-gold with the range offered in their kits. Humbrol does make a very nice, pigment-rich tintable Brass enamel (#54) that can be mixed with their #55 Bronze to get a color that's very close, for small touch-ups. This paint is available in little tins at model train stores, and is more common in the UK and Europe than in the States. It can be ordered online.

The Dupli-Color mentioned could, if sprayed into the lid of the can and allowed to thicken by solvent evaporation, into a paint that would be a bit more opaque and brushable. You could try this, dabbing or dropping it over the scratch. Once dry, the scratch would be less obvious, but invisibility is too much to ask for in this case.

As usual, the impeccable quality of Paul's methods shows. Paul, your discipline is amazing.

For me, in this case, originality trumps perfection. I would try the Dupli-color method.

Bob, thanks for the kind words. Coming from an old-timer with your Rick credentials, it is especially welcome.

Now, on to belaboring the point. I'm not sure how using Dupli-Color qualifies as "original", and I got to thinking last night just how I would do this if I was an owner without the desire to spend a whole lot of money or time, but who just wanted those black scratches to go away.

I would not use Dupli-color. The biggest issue with Dupli-Color is its lack of opacity if brushed. If sprayed, there's no problem--just apply multiple coats. But because it's an acrylic lacquer that hardens by solvent evaporation (true of all lacquers except polyester lacquers), it must be sprayed; brushing more than one coat is out of the question, as the solvent in the new coat dissolves the entire first coat, and you get a bit of a mess.

Now, supposing that you have a tiny, 1 or 2 mm long scratch through that gold. Also suppose that the gold paint has come off in the chip, but the acrylic guard itself is not scratched or chipped (about a 50-50 chance). Now suppose that you wish to touch up that scratch by spraying Dupli-Color over it. There are two ways to go about this: you can spray the entire guard, chip and all, or you can mask off the guard except for, say, a square inch or so on the back of the guard that includes the defect. I would probably use the first of these methods--whole guard--if I had limited myself to this method, which I would (surprise!) call the "Dupli-Color" method.

The factory paint is a catalyzing-type of polyurethane, so only very strong solvents (specifically, compounds like methylene chloride or ethylene dichloride) will actually soften it, but this softening is only of the already-catalyzed skin, and it is not a true dissolution. This leads to wrinkling of the factory coating on the edge of the scratch--an undesirable outcome! Lacquers like Dupli-Color contain trace amounts of these solvents, but generally not enough to cause concern.

The main problem with spraying the Dupli-Color over tiny scratches or chips is the tendency to spray the material very wet or with poor atomization. This leads to a realtively large quantity of lacquer being deposited onto the surface. While it remains wet and viscous, the paint will be attracted through capillary action to the edges of the scratch. Once dried, the paint film will not show an even metallic sheen in the scratch itself; rather edges will come up darker and the center of the scratch lighter.

Now, you might say,"it's only a tiny scratch...who cares about this on such a small scale?" My own thinking on this is that, if a scratch is enough to bug you and upset your sense of universal Ricken-order, a badly-touched-up scratch will eventually lead to all sorts of disorders in thinking and action that I'd rather we not consider at this time.

Upon reflection, my own feeling is that the Humbrol paint is probably the best shot. Here's why.

Humbrol is a European enamel that is formulated for a high-quality finish, price point be damned. Its metallic colors are very, very high in pigment content, so opacity is less of a problem. For brushing, it cannot be beat. It takes a long time to dry, and because it is a true air-dry alkyd enamel, solvent evaporation is only the first part of the drying process; once the solvents have evaporated, the chemistry of the paint film reacts with the oxygen in the atmosphere and the paint hardens to a point where it will not re-dissolve with subsequent applications (not that they would be necessary, considering the opacity issue and the tiny area to be covered). Also, it's thick enough that capillary action is not a factor in application: it will cling to the entire area equally well.

Here's a USA link for a Humbrol supplier in Michigan. It turns out that these are the go-to paints for the tin soldier hobbyists out there:

http://www.michtoy.com/MTSCnewSite/supp ... mbrol.html

Humbrol paint comes in tiny tin cans with pry-off lids, about an inch in diameter by 3/4" high. They need a lot of stirring due to the high pigment content:



Here's a big plus: Supposing that you have touched up the scratch with a Humbrol color match that you've mixed and once you get the paint dabbed over the area, it still isn't quite right...looks a bit too dark, or light...Humbrol enamel can be removed from the guard with ordinary--and cheap---hardware store mineral spirits. You can dampen a cloth with this and wipe away the color. You might have to take a toothbrush to the scratch to clean it out thoroughly, but mineral spirits will attack neither the acrylic nor the factory polyurethane paint on the guard. One caveat is not to leave it on for an extended time, and don't soak.

Matching the factory color. I wish I could give a formula that would nail it. Were I ordering the Humbrol paint online, though, I'd buy four colors: Brass ( #054 the primary component in Rick gold), Bronze ( 055 to dull and add a bit of red), Metallic Aluminum (056) in case I have to lighten the mix; and Metallic Copper (012). This comes out to around $8 plus shipping, but I do feel it's the best bet. Still, the mixing is up to you, and a first-surface match is NOT a second-surface match--colors on the back of acrylic tend to look darker, and metallics look darker than most.

NOTE that you cannot intermix metallics with solids with any success; they are two different paint systems--metallics are see-through and solids are opaque; in other words, not see-through. This is true of ALL paints out there.

When you've got it matched reasonable well, dab or drop it over the scratch, remove any excess by wicking it up with a dry brush, and let dry undisturbed for a couple of days. A fan helps to set it up faster. I would shy away from heat guns and the like, as they can distort the acrylic.

If the scratch is into the acrylic as well, no paint, no matter how perfect the color match or application, is going to hide that scratch. So, touch it up and live with the shadow.

When I said that, what I meant was that I would rather do something that did not require replacing the guard. Your description of using some Dupli-Color sprayed into the lid and brushed on seemed like a good solution.

Thanks for elaborating on this in your latest post- as usual, your encyclopaedic knowledge of all things finish-related is amazing.

Well, it's mutual, Bob. I'm a short-timer at this Rick thing and look to folks like yourself, who know the ins and outs of history, model details, and general information, in order to grow my own Ricken-knowledge base.

Paul, I must say that yours is the most complete answer to any question I've ever asked (which is sad considering this includes questions like, "Where do babies come from?") Anyway, my apprehension concerning this pickguard stems from many years of furniture finishing and touch-up. I've learned from the incompatibilities and physical laws you speak of. I'm not willing to relive that portion of my life by making a soup out of this guard.

I'm on my way out the door now but I had to thank you, once again, for the open way in which you share your knowledge. Sometimes your answers are concise, oftentimes far-reaching, but always to the point.

I've ordered the four paints you suggested and will devise a safe application method per your suggestions. When done, I'll take some photos and post them here. I need the color to match closely, and, it's got to be metallic; shadows I can live with. When touching-up, the goal is to not call attention. Thanks to both you and Bob for your involvement.

BTW, Bob, I wrote you long ago, before I was a member here, while considering buying this particular (my first) Rickenbacker. I doubt you remember but it's nice to know we again cross paths.

-Bob

Threads like this just totally amaze me... [shakes head]

Thanks for being there Bob and Paul. And for sharing.

Thnaks. I do indeed remember your questions. This is a gorgeous piece. Good luck with the touchup.

I finally cleared off the dining table, laid out the issue at hand, turned on the halogens and took on this nagging challenge.

As I've found from experience with touch-up on woods such as mahogany, it is possible to get an exact match only to find that when you move your head in one direction it's too light, and too dark when you move to the other. In this case I was able to take the "perfect" photo in natural light from a window, while the second only differed because I shaded the pickguard with my hand.

It seems that there are reflective qualities with these paints that change not only with formulation, but with less obvious factors, such as angle of reflection and kelvin.

The good news is that this 75% "healing" is fine with me. I'll leave it to my heirs to deal with any complaints.

Many thanks to Bob and Paul.

Well, you went at it properly, Bob, and the see-through palettes were a stroke of genius!

But, you discovered what everyone does when an attempt is made to touch up a metallic/pearlescent/mica with a brush--it ain't necessarily so.

Looks better than before, though, thus complying with the luthier's Hipocratic Oath--things that go out should benefit from our ministrations. If they are worse in any way, we're not doing our job properly.