Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Back when I got my Ric 360-12 in 2005, I had Mark Arnquist set up the guitar with a new nut and 12-saddle bridge. He smoothed out the tops and sides of all the saddles as such :



Initially, I complained to him that the sound was warbly with the 12-saddle bridge, so I sent it back to him, and he installed new springs on it, that fit better. In the interim, I ended up going back to the 6-saddle bridge, which I thought sounded better. I got the bridge back from him with new springs, but I was in the middle of a project, and didn’t want to disrupt the sound I had going with the 6-saddle. That's really where I left it, until recently, when I have been re-visiting the intonation on all of my Rics (one horror story in progress), and I’ve been going through the 12-string set-up the past couple of nights. I noticed that I had loose springs with the 6-saddle, so I actually took all the springs out. However, the sound seemed to go south when I did that - thin, warbly, no meat to the sound. I wonder if the springs help stabilize the saddle. Anyway, I decided to take the bridge back out, stretch the springs out, and put them back in. However, this appeared to be a perfect time to try the 12-saddle bridge again. I slid the bridge plate back to where he had it, inserted the bridge, tuned up (broke the little G as it has been traumatized the past couple nights), and low and behold, my sound came back, as good as if not better than ever. Also, the intonation settings he had were about perfect. I’m sorry I didn’t give it a fair assessment after he sent it back with the new springs, because this is a great bridge. My favorite thing about it is how the saddles move perfectly when I turn the screws, however, I don’t even need to do that, since it’s intonated great already ! Great job by Mark Arnquist.

My 360-12 has toasters, trapeze tail piece, vintage knobs, and now, a 12-saddle bridge. Awhile back, Tony Carey said this look was "firmly planted in no-man's land". Melissa B thinks of it as "the Steve Carsello model"

I'd say the look is firmly planted in 'clean, classic and classy' - very nice indeed.

That's the "Steve Carsello signature model!" Now go get a Sharpie and sign that pickguard!

Interesting observation about the effect of removing the springs. There was a post not too long ago on TalkBass by a guy who had been experimenting with different variables in a Fender bass bridge (a long-standing and unresolved debate is whether and what difference something like a Badass bridge makes compared to the standard bridge) and he said that of all the different things he tried, the one that made the most difference in tone etc. was using stronger springs. That may be a place where upgrading could be substantially rewarded.

Charles, it's interesting that you said this. I love tinkering, and usually when I hear something, I really hear it. I think I have a good ear. I'd like to hear an expert opinion on this, if there is one. Sometimes I wonder if I'm in unchartered waters. Going through my RICs, I noticed that, in order to get great intonation, every one ended up with loose springs, and every one needed the typical jiggling and song & dance to get the saddles located properly. I realize that what Mark Arnquist did was alot of extra work in terms of machining and tooling, but it really is necessary in order to create a working, solid bridge. With the way it is from the factory, I am really alot less inclined to experiment with different strings, because I don't want to hassle with the intonation.

By the way, before my new 360 went out of comission (see other thread), with flat-wound strings, I had it set so perfectly, that the guitar literally played perfectly in tune on every string, along the entire fretboard. If you want to achieve absolute perfect pitch, with no tempered tuning, I recommend these Thomastik-Infields. You would be amazed at how tuneful your guitar will be.

eatswodo wrote:I'd say the look is firmly planted in 'clean, classic and classy' - very nice indeed.

Right on. I love a clean crisp look ! I wish I could re-create the conditions when I took that picture. I could get top dollar for any guitar if I could re-create that lighting !!

steverok wrote: I wish I could re-create the conditions when I took that picture. I could get top dollar for any guitar if I could re-create that lighting !!

Yep....that looks really nice. Although I've noticed that on the cover of your "Time Of Our Time" CD, the pickguards almost look gold in that lighting--that wouldn't be a bad look for that guitar, if you could still get a TRC to match!

I guess I used yellow lighting for that photo. By the way, I had to take about 50 photos to get this one. It was surprisingly difficult to capture the mood. I also wore a special shirt



I hear you on the gold guards, but (a) I am reluctant to change from my "clean, classic, and classy" look, and (b) the Steve Carsello signature model is now established, and could not undergo such a drastic make-over.

Cool picture, but the belt buckle in such close proximity to the Ric makes me a little bit nervous....

When does that beautiful bridge go into production ?

I never understood what the deal is with those bridges, I think they've been around since the 1980s or 1990s, but they never put them on the guitars? Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't?

I'm convinced that Rick 12s are the most finicky guitars on the planet and have to have the right strings and the right person setting them up in order for them to function properly. When I took my 330-12 to my guitar tech, he commented he didn't like working on Rickenbacker 12s and wound up removing a spring on the six-saddle bridge for some reason. His comment should have told me right then and there he wouldn't do it right. He didn't. It wouldn't stay in tune until I bought Kurt Mangum strings and took it to another tech who got it right. I recently took it back to my usual guy for a neck tweak and that was no problem, but for setups, I'll take it again to Bill at Dave's Sound in Whippany, NJ, who got it right, finally.

No offense to my luthier, who has done a great job on my other guitars. He's just not a Rick fan.

VRICKY63 wrote:When does that beautiful bridge go into production ?

As soon as you can get some nut case to spend as much time on each one as it takes to build half of an entire guitar, dozens of times a day...

drumbob wrote:I'm convinced that Rick 12s are the most finicky guitars on the planet and have to have the right strings and the right person setting them up in order for them to function properly. When I took my 330-12 to my guitar tech, he commented he didn't like working on Rickenbacker 12s and wound up removing a spring on the six-saddle bridge for some reason. His comment should have told me right then and there he wouldn't do it right. He didn't. It wouldn't stay in tune until I bought Kurt Mangum strings and took it to another tech who got it right. I recently took it back to my usual guy for a neck tweak and that was no problem, but for setups, I'll take it again to Bill at Dave's Sound in Whippany, NJ, who got it right, finally.

No offense to my luthier, who has done a great job on my other guitars. He's just not a Rick fan.

Rick ignorance (among luthiers and most guitarists) is the operative, default situation. Combine than with the part of human nature that doesn't enjoy thinking, and the part that is arrogant and stubborn (both of which come to the fore in some personality types), and you've got pretty much the situation that Bob's outlined here.

12-string guitars are finicky by nature. The way that Rick 12-string electrics are conceived makes them hell to play and own unless they are set up properly. The factory setup--and remember, the factory cannot spend hours tweaking things and polishing and rounding every part of a 12-string bridge to a fare-thee-well--is a "baseline" thing. If the end-user wishes to tweak that setup to better suit his/her needs, it is his/her responsibility (and necessity) to turn the task over to a competent technician, or learn to do it him/herself.

With 99% of the guitars out there being Fenders or Gibsons or their heirs and assigns, guitar techs want to work on something they understand. Ricks have gotten a rep among even the best techs as being problem children. This is because, again, the vast majority of techs either don't want to know, get Ricks that have been already "worked on" by someone else who didn't have a clue, or a combination of both circumstances.

Rickenbackers are SOOO EASY to set up, once a person understands basic guitar geometry and how Rickenbacker interprets this and applies it in their products. If you understand scale length, intonation, and string height (all geometric principles) and know a bit about string tension, have a bit of manual dexterity and finger sensitivity, and a good strobe tuner and set of setup tools (which could represent an investment of $500 or so, although a good tech will have it all excepting the special $15 RIC truss rod adjusting driver), you're set.

I could spend one afternoon with a good tech who has never touched a Rickenbacker, and with one setup taken slowly, train him to set up a Rick properly and reliably. It is not rocket science, but has been blown way out of (negative) proportion by the guitar tech community, never known for its imagination and capacity for original thought, anyway.