Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

There seems to be an awful lot of talk about cables, and since there is such a wide a choice in them, share with us what you use and why. Everything from those Radio Shack curled cables to those over a hundred dollar ones, what's the best bang for the buck?

Good cables are essential for getting your sound across. While you don't need to go out and spend $100+ on a guitar of speaker cable, cheap cables should be avoided - They don't hold up to the stress, and are lossy both signal-wise and frequency-wise. There are a lot of moderately priced cables out there that are low capacitance (to help keep your frequency range), low resistance (to keep your signal strength high) and well made with quality plugs nad lifetime warranties (so they don't fall apart or fail).

I don't use any particular brand, but look for moderately priced low capacitance and resistance cables in the length I need that offer a lifetime warranty.

I use Horizon Vintage IIs - the cool cloth-covered ones.

I've had the same set of half a dozen 10's and three 20's for over ten years now, and never a single failure apart from a couple of broken hot connections in the plugs, easily resoldered. They sound great - not super hi-fi or bright, but just full and clear. They have very low handling noise, don't tangle easily, resist stage dirt very well (and can be washed, which I've done maybe two or three times), come in a multitude of colors so you know where they're all going (I don't have two the same, in fact), and... look great! I've had women comment on my cables at gigs occasionally, beat that!!!

I think they would be hard to beat for bang-for-buck both because they weren't very expensive to begin with and because they've lasted so well.


For speaker cables I use my own - made from surplus two-core power cable (mostly used) and Neutrik plugs. They sound as good as anything else (unlike guitar cables, I don't believe speaker cables make any significant difference to tone once you get up to an adequate gauge), are very robust both physically and electrically (the most important requirement for a speaker cable, since if it fails you could seriously damage your amp) and best of all, if you use used cable it's FREE .

Haahahha listen mikey any lead will do when you live in the mad house i do! I normally go for the Klotz or is it klutz!
P.S Always great to have a natter speak soon! mate.

BlueAngel wrote:I use Horizon Vintage IIs - the cool cloth-covered ones.

I've had the same set of half a dozen 10's and three 20's for over ten years now, and never a single failure apart from a couple of broken hot connections in the plugs, easily resoldered. They sound great - not super hi-fi or bright, but just full and clear. They have very low handling noise, don't tangle easily, resist stage dirt very well (and can be washed, which I've done maybe two or three times), come in a multitude of colors so you know where they're all going (I don't have two the same, in fact), and... look great! I've had women comment on my cables at gigs occasionally, beat that!!!

I think they would be hard to beat for bang-for-buck both because they weren't very expensive to begin with and because they've lasted so well.


For speaker cables I use my own - made from surplus two-core power cable (mostly used) and Neutrik plugs. They sound as good as anything else (unlike guitar cables, I don't believe speaker cables make any significant difference to tone once you get up to an adequate gauge), are very robust both physically and electrically (the most important requirement for a speaker cable, since if it fails you could seriously damage your amp) and best of all, if you use used cable it's FREE .

I love these cables. I've only recently discovered them. They are like the Timex of cables with a lifetime warranty!

BlueAngel wrote:I've had women comment on my cables at gigs occasionally, beat that!!!

I guess it would depend on what kind of comments they make about your cable.

BlueAngel wrote:I don't believe speaker cables make any significant difference to tone once you get up to an adequate gauge)

With speaker cable, it's not the tone, but the power transfer. The heavier gauge wire you have, the more power is delivered to your speakers (and your amp doesn't have to work as hard).

Whirlwinds.

beatlefreak wrote:With speaker cable, it's not the tone, but the power transfer. The heavier gauge wire you have, the more power is delivered to your speakers (and your amp doesn't have to work as hard).

It makes no significant difference. The resistance of the cable - assuming you ARE using a proper gauge - is so low compared to that of the speaker that it's irrelevant.

Here's some calculation which will show why:

18-gauge copper cable has a resistance of about 6.5 ohm per 1,000 feet, so a typical 6' speaker cable has a resistance of 12(total length in both directions)/1000x6.5 = 0.078 ohms. If you go up to 14-gauge cable which has a resistance of around 2.5 ohms per 1,000ft (which is a pretty big difference, less than half the value) the cable resistance is now 12/1000x2.5=0.03 ohms. If you're using a 4-ohm cab (lower cab impedance increases the effect because the cable resistance is then proportionately larger) - with 18-gauge cable you are losing 0.078/4.078=0.019 (1.9%) of the power in the cable; with the much better 14-gauge cable you are losing 0.03/4.03=0.0074 (0.74%) of the power in the cable. That means that the difference in power reaching the speaker is only 1.16%, or a volume difference of about 0.05dB... which is absolutely inaudible.

And that's for 18-gauge vs. 14-gauge cable (roughly the smallest vs. the largest cables commonly used for guitar speakers) into a 4-ohm cab. If the cable gauge difference is less, or the cab impedance is higher, then the result is even smaller. So really, cable gauge has next to no effect on power transfer, unless you do go much too small (cable resistance is inversely proportional to the square of diameter, so it rises quite sharply as the gauge goes down). Even if you were to use fantastically heavy cable that had effectively zero resistance, the difference compared to an 18-gauge cable would still only be at most 1.9%, or about 0.085db - still inaudible.

The main benefit of using heavier cable - at the sort of relatively low powers in guitar amps - is that it's a lot more physically robust as well. (For really high power amps, the actual power dissipated in the cable becomes important - that 1.9% loss in a 1000W application would be 19W, which is enough to heat up the cable enough to risk damaging the plastic insulation.)


Guitar cables do make a significant difference to tone though - because they have very high capacitance in relation to the high-impedance passive circuitry in a guitar, and the differences are enough to be clearly audible.


(Do a Google search on 'cable resistance' if you want to check the figures, but I'm fairly sure they're right.)

Good Grief
Just wanted to know what time it is, not how to build a watch

I tend to use Hosa leads for around the house - reasonable quality and price. For practice and gigs I use Bullet coreX2 cables - about twice the price as Hosa but excellent quality.

I also have an 80' George L cable just in case I want to wander out into the crowd! Haven't used it yet but if I do I hope there aren't any stiletto heels out on the floor!!

whojamfan wrote:Good Grief
Just wanted to know what time it is, not how to build a watch

Mike, get out your soldering iron.
http://procablesnsound.com/items/bulk-c ... detail.htm
http://procablesnsound.com/items/Connectors/list.htm

http://procablesnsound.com/items/instru ... detail.htm

whojamfan wrote:Good Grief
Just wanted to know what time it is, not how to build a watch

Very true, but if someone tells you that you need a Rolex because it tells the time much better than a Timex, it can be useful to be able to show that you don't .


Cables and the claims made for them can be contentious issues, and sometimes you need to actually do the math to work out whether they could possibly be true or not, since it's very easy to fool your ears when swapping things. A heavy-gauge speaker cable IS better than a thinner one, but not very much, and certainly not enough to affect the power getting to the cab in any way you could hear. Tone is much more subjective, and although I really don't think there is a difference here either, some people fervently believe that there is, so if it makes you happy to spend Rolex money on a cable instead of Timex money, that's up to you.

Personally I wear a Tissot, which is Swiss engineering at a more practical price .

I find it very unfortunate that all that mumbo jumbo voodoo marketing from the HI End stereo sector is moving into the MI sector.

jps wrote:I find it very unfortunate that all that mumbo jumbo voodoo marketing from the HI End stereo sector is moving into the MI sector.

+1

Hence why I think its a good idea to actually understand the physics involved - or at least trust someone who does. You can also do proper A/B testing, but that needs to be thought through and conducted very carefully in order to eliminate spurious reasons for differences appearing to exist. It can be done, but the proponents of hyper-expensive cables usually don't want to know, because you can often clearly "hear" the difference when you compare the cables unscientifically. Or think you do...

Many people in the industry don't seem to understand basic things about physics which render some of the claims extremely questionable in many cases and downright nonsense in others - either that or they do, and are relying on the ignorance of their customers instead.

There's nothing at all wrong with using good cables, they are usually more reliable, and it may well improve your sound slightly over really cheap junk - but good and expensive don't always mean the same thing, and the difference is small compared to almost any other factor in the sound chain anyway.

I make my own now from George L cable and Switchcraft plugs (not a fan of the solderless plugs). I can make good quality 20' cables for less than the local cost of a 20' Whirlwind, and the cable is thinner and lighter. Tone wise, I can't tell the difference between my cables and an Evidence I had for a few days.