Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I'm stumped. Someone asked me what is the term for when you develop two different musical themes and then play them together simultaneously.

One not so great example would be Cat Stevens' "Father and Son"...on that third section where they sing their different parts together. Another example is in the musical Godspell, the song "All for the Best"...the first verse is a certain melody, the second verse sung by someone else is a different melody entirely, same chords...and when they do it together it all fits in a fun way. Whaddya call that??

Cacophony? Heterophony? There must be a solid term for it, but I don't know what it is...


Help?

Well, If you sing melody "A" over certain chords, then you sing melody "B" over the same chords at the same time...

If melody B is the same rhythmically as melody A, it could just be a harmonized line, otherwise (or I suppose, even if it IS the same rhythmic line) you could call it a counter-melody.

Hmm. It's really hard to say, because such a thing doesn't really exist in the world of classical music. So much of it - the vast majority, in fact - is through composed, meaning nothing ever repeats. The exceptions to that would be any piece written in Sonata-Allegro form, but even then, only the "exposition" (introduction) comes back, and not the "development" (sort of like a bridge).

Well...a lot of classical musicians who don't through-compose will work up different themes, and then, as a climax, those different themes all interact together ingeniously. I keep thinking there is a term for that section...but maybe not.

I still think a counter-melody would be an acceptable term.

tennis_nick wrote:I still think a counter-melody would be an acceptable term.

+1

The reason I'm asking is because someone on a songwriting forum asked me. She's got a song where everything is pretty standard, Verse Chorus Verse Chorus Bridge Chorus...but she wrote the bridge in a way where it gets repeated during the last chorus, and it all meshes together.

I'm guessing it's the same chord structure with different melodies, so that's probably called heterophony or even cacophony.

But I sort of wish there was a less "adjective-y" noun for it.

Another great example is when Bowie and Bing sang "Peace on Earth" and "The Little Drummer Boy" together.

I think we need to invent a term. And while we're at it, let's do all the lyricists a favor and make it rhyme with either silver, orange or purple.

Thanks for puzzling this one out!

I'm thinking like "I've Got A Feeling" as well, where Paul and John's parts meet at the end, over the same chord progression.

The reason I'm hesitant to use the phrase "counter-melody" is that Mark used the worth "theme", which implies much more than just a counter melody.

It is undoubtedly some form of polyphonic counterpoint. Juxtaposing two melodies like that will almost always result in at least a little contrapuntal movement. However, there has got to be a more specific phrase for it then that.

Heterophony is also good, but in my experience really refers moreso to eastern music, where you might have two themes in different keys or tempos.

"I've Got a Feeling"! Great example.

lyle_from_minneapolis wrote:let's do all the lyricists a favor and make it rhyme with either silver, orange or purple.

You'd better not, you son of a *****!!!!!

As for the term, I'd just call it "clever."

Counterpoint may well be what's happening, but the section in which it all comes together is called the morange.

It's also known as a spilver, or the verple.

lyle_from_minneapolis wrote: is called the morange.

No no no noNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! You'll ruin my band's whole schtick!!!

jdogric12aolcom wrote:

lyle_from_minneapolis wrote: is called the morange.

No no no noNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! You'll ruin my band's whole schtick!!!

LOL!