Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Just wanted to say a big Thanks to Marc!
for a great deal on a great bass that I've been hunting for a long time...August '72 4001 MG, As Marc described, it is complete and almost "as new" everywhere; the only real flaw is the discoloration.
My search is over; this IS my dream bass! It plays, feels and sounds as great as I expected!

I could definitely live with it as it is, but I imagine how it could be...so it's now in the hands of Dale Fortune, who came to pick it up yesterday. Me and my son met him at Boll Weevil for lunch. Dale said he's seen this before, knows what did it and how to fix it. So, I feel confident...He will be sending pics of the repair/refinish, and estimates March, 2009 completion.

With my health, family, and friends, this has been a terrific holiday season!
Thanks Marc!

Congrats and enjoy it, Mike!

You're alright, Marc!

Did Dale describe what causes that kind of discoloration to you?

I was wondering the same thing...

Me too.

Congrats on a wonderful bass - love the MG "color"!

jps wrote:Did Dale describe what causes that kind of discoloration to you?

Yeah he did, when I first contacted Dale by email, he sent me this reply (below). Yesterday upon actually getting it in his hands he confirmed it. The "giveaway" clue was (and I wish I'd thought of this!) was that there's no discoloration at the tailpiece end of the body, where there is no binding.
The following is quoted exactly as Dale wrote:

"The discoloration is caused from the dye that was used in the B/W checkered binding. Acetone was used to adhere the celluloid binding to the body wings. The black dye leaches into the Maple causing this. It takes a period of years for this to happen. I've seen it before on 360 Mapleglos and other Mapleglo Ricks. It is more noticable on the Mapleglo finish as the Fireglo and solid colors hide this problem. There are ways to correct this with a total refinish. Happy Holidays from Dale @ Fortune Guitars"

When I asked him to elaborate on some details, he replied with this:

"Yes we did make glue from acetone and small pieces of binding, mixed in a coffee can with no lid, a piece of cardboard or wood was laid over the top opening when it was not being used, but when we would come to work the next morning sometimes the acetone had evaporated leaving the mixture semi hard, so more acetone was put in the coffee can with the binding pieces and left to soften. When this mixture was a paste like substance we would use a small brush to apply it to the binding and slots, the brush was the kind used for applying solder acid. This was the 60s and 70s method. While we waited for the mixture to soften we would take the B/W checkered and white binding and use straight acetone with a brush to apply the binding. This really softened the binding and made it adhere easily. We'd also coat the binding slots with straight acetone on a brush to help the binding adhere better, this caused a penetration of the dye that was in the checkered binding to leach into the grain of the Maple. This is why you don't see this on every Mapleglo Rick because 10 or 15 minutes after we started work in the morning, the acetone binding mixture was soft enough to use with a brush and we didn't use straight acetone once it had softened enough to use it with a brush. This mixture did not penetrate like the straight acetone did. I have seen other Ricks with this same leaching problem over the years of my working on Rickenbacker instruments.
I hope this clears up any confusion with this problem... Dale Fortune"

It makes sense to me, but even if it didn't, I'm no expert - so I'd take his word for it since he actually worked at Ric at that time...

Very interesting and neat bit of trivia. I always assumed that it was some form of water damage.

thb_bassman wrote:The "giveaway" clue was (and I wish I'd thought of this!) was that there's no discoloration at the tailpiece end of the body, where there is no binding.

We were discussing this at MARF and I came to the same conclusion as the discoloration was only where there was binding. I am glad to hear it can be corrected.

s4001 wrote:Very interesting and neat bit of trivia. I always assumed that it was some form of water damage.

Agreed, I actually had no original idea what would have done it, other than reading other people's ideas. I think I was leaning toward the "sweat" theory...
I told Dale if possible I'd like to keep it in MG, and he said he'd give it a try.
Otherwise a nice AG would look pretty sweet, don't ya think?

jps wrote:

thb_bassman wrote:The "giveaway" clue was (and I wish I'd thought of this!) was that there's no discoloration at the tailpiece end of the body, where there is no binding.

We were discussing this at MARF and I came to the same conclusion as the discoloration was only where there was binding. I am glad to hear it can be corrected.

Hat's off to ya for that detective work, Jeff!
I admit it never crossed my feeble mind...
Now I'm thinking I may tell Dale to just leave it. Seems to be much more interesting as it is!

Mike, very interesting and thanks for sharing Dale's knowledge. Personally, I would have him get rid of the stains if he can, make it MG if he does (MG mmmmm), and only go with AG if he can't. I would also consider AutumnGlo or Walnut also. F W I W

johnallg wrote:Mike, very interesting and thanks for sharing Dale's knowledge. Personally, I would have him get rid of the stains if he can, make it MG if he does (MG mmmmm), and only go with AG if he can't. I would also consider AutumnGlo or Walnut also. F W I W

Thanks, John!
That's pretty much exactly how it was decided!
"Great minds...", and all that...

I like Burgundy!

the way the photo comes across,i really like the color of the "discolored" part-sort of a darker ambered maple,not exactly traditional,i realize---that bass is a beaut,regardless of what finish you decide.....

Wow mark, what a great score. If the discoloration were a little more even, it would look like it was supposed to be that way!