Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

This is my first post in this great forum.

I am considering purchasing a Rickenbacker 12 string and I have a few too choose between. It is
The first one is a 660/12 2004 model fireglo which is part of the ric resource register. The other is a new unused
660/12 is probably 2008 model. The third one is a 360/12v64 2000 model.

I would like some help to verify if my observations are correct or not

660/12 FG week 15 2004:
=======================

I am a bit concerned when I see the pictures of the 660/12 2004 model. It seems to me that the distance between the octave string
and normal string is larger than the one I find pictures of in the gallery here. I mean at the bridge end.
Here are some pictures of the 660/12:
http://www.satellite-calculations.com/G ... %20014.jpg
http://www.satellite-calculations.com/G ... %20003.jpg
http://www.satellite-calculations.com/G ... %20005.jpg

As the angle the pictures are taken the low&high (octave/normal) string is likely to be even more separated from each other.

I have compared with some pictures from the gallery
http://www.rickresource.com/register/us ... llsize.jpg (2002 model)
http://www.rickresource.com/register/us ... llsize.jpg (2007 model)
http://www.rickresource.com/register/us ... llsize.jpg (2008 model)

It also seems like the strings are a tighter spaced (E to E) on the nut on the 2004 model. Ie. it is more space on
the edges of the fingerboard:
http://www.satellite-calculations.com/G ... %20004.jpg
http://www.rickresource.com/register/us ... llsize.jpg (2008 model)


I have been offered the 660/12 FG 2004 for the excact same price as a brand new one in natural
finish (guess thats mapleglo). This new unused one is likely a 2008 model or 2007. Is the 2004 FG model in general worth
the same or more than a brand new mapleglo one ?
http://img.luthman.se/ProductImages/HiRes/104029.jpg

Has anybody modified a 660/12 with ric-o-sound output ? I don't like the idea of drilling new hole
and install a new jackplate. A good luthier might be able to do this without any problems but it will not be reversible.
Perhaps the mono jack can be replaced by a stereo jack. Then it might be
possible to make an external adapter or special jack cable which converts to mono output ?

I really like the look of the FG little better than the MG but playability is most important. Its also warranty on a new instrument.
Any advice would be appriciated.

660/12 MG 2008:
===============

It looks like the string pairs are tighter on this one too.
http://img.luthman.se/ProductImages/HiRes/104029.jpg

360/12v64 FG week 18 2000:
==========================

Pictures can be found on http://www.satellite-calculations.com/G ... /36012v64/
This one will probably be sold for approxematly the same price as the new 660/12 and the 660/12 2004. I am wery
concerned about the small neck width at nut. It has not got the new nut which gives better spacing . As far as I can see from posts here
and on the Rickenbacker forums the new nut gives better playability. I'm not sure how easy it
will be to get a wider replacement nut here in the Norwegian Woods ... Is the nut glued or is it fitted with
a screw ? Is it delivered with slots/groove ?

I also understand that a 12 saddle brige will fit on the 360/12v64 should I decide I need
12 saddles (but it will need to be slotted ?).

I have a Danelectro 12 string and the neck with at nut is around 45-46mm but with
lots of free space on the edge of the fretboard. http://www.satellite-calculations.com/G ... dified.jpg
The distance between the outer E strings on this one is approxematly 39.2mm. It would have been wery
interessting to know the distance between the E strings low and high E string on the 360/12v64. I think my fingers could
cope well with marginally tighter spacing.

The 360/12v64 should also be quite easy to modify for ric-o-sound output if I like to test it. It would be easy to change
back to orginal setup.


Comparision:
===========

From what I have read the 360/12v64 has warmer sound in the medium frequency range created by the hollow body. The 660/12 has better sustain because
of the neck trough body construction. Both have the same vintage pickups as I understand ( I do not want the hot type). I do not want to ask which one sounds best because that will be very subjective and probably does not have any correct answer

I like the Beatles Rick 360/12 sound but I also like the Tom Petty sound. Tom Pettys "Flirting with time" has got a Rickenbacker solo (I guess it cant be any other instrument). Does anyone know if this sound is from his 660/12 or if its from his 360/12?
Traveling Wilburys also had some amazing 12 string sounds. Specially on "End of the line" (more appearant on the extended
version ). Traveling Wilburys "You took my breath away". George Harrisons "Fish on the Sand" also sounds nice etc.
I understand that a good compressor helps a lot and I have a decent compressor as I own a JangleBox.

Welcome to the forum, glad to see you here! This is my own observation and opinion on your question, and I hope it helps you make a decision that you are happy with.

The 660 has a wider neck than any other model, probably making it easier to play. The solidbody has notes that will ring longer, which is good and bad, depending what you want to do. The 360/12v64 will have the narrowist string spacing, but will also have the vintage and or closest sound to the Beatles and such. The look is also classic Rickenbacker, and will always go up in value. The ROS mod is very easy and reverseable, unlike the others that don't have 2 outputs. Sound is way too subjective, but I own a Danelectro 12 string, and my 360/12 completes the spectrum of available 12 string sounds. The Fender 12s are easily approximated by the Danelectro, and the Strat 12 is very unusable in the bridge position without changing the pickup.

So, in a nutshell, I would get the 360/12v64 for the classic Rick sound and look, as well as a wise investment.

whojamfan wrote:Welcome to the forum, glad to see you here! This is my own observation and opinion on your question, and I hope it helps you make a decision that you are happy with.

The 660 has a wider neck than any other model, probably making it easier to play. The solidbody has notes that will ring longer, which is good and bad, depending what you want to do. The 360/12v64 will have the narrowist string spacing, but will also have the vintage and or closest sound to the Beatles and such. The look is also classic Rickenbacker, and will always go up in value. The ROS mod is very easy and reverseable, unlike the others that don't have 2 outputs. Sound is way too subjective, but I own a Danelectro 12 string, and my 360/12 completes the spectrum of available 12 string sounds. The Fender 12s are easily approximated by the Danelectro, and the Strat 12 is very unusable in the bridge position without changing the pickup.

So, in a nutshell, I would get the 360/12v64 for the classic Rick sound and look, as well as a wise investment.

Thank you wery much

You provide important information for me. As you both got the Danelectro and 360/12 how difficult do you mean the 360/12 neck width is to cope with compared to the Danelectro ? I guess your 360/12 got the same with at nut as the 360/12v64 got ?

I have read the rules for this forum and I could not find any rules against mentioning other brands. I hope its ok to discuss them as long as the main intention is to
to select the Rick that suits me best.

I have played guitars as a hobby since the early 80s. Until now I could not afford other than cheap guitars like Squire Telecaster, Danelectro DC12(got it used almost for free) and a Seagull C6 acustic 6 string. My first guitar was an Ibanez Blazer series 6 string (1981). I had no problem with the neck on this one and it seems to have got excactly the same width at nut as 360/12 , but only 6 strings....

I got really nice results soundwise on my Danelectro with Seymour Duncan PU's and Janglebox (I jave also swapped the posistions of low/high stringing). The Janglebox is simply fantastic in my opinion. I find the Danelectro a bit hard to play on but I think its mainly caused by the Pyramid Gold flatwound strings and the fact I did not adjust the neck for that tension (a bit tricky as the neck has to be taken off the body....). DC12 was much better with the factory strings. I think I have read somewhere
that the "Egyptian" strings is wery stiff or something like that ( might have been John Hall on the Rickenbacker forums).

I will keep my Danelectro aanyway and I guess it is soundwise closer to a 660/12 as it does not have hollowbody (although its hollow inside...). Maybe its
really hopeless to compare with a guitar that would cost me at least 10 times more than the Dano but the Seymoure Duncan and Janglebox made a big difference.

Knowing that a new nut with wider spacing can be fitted on the 360/12v64 is of course something I must take into consideration.

I own a 660/12. Versatile guitar, solid body, lots of sustain and the toasters sing on that baby! If you prefer solid bodies to hollowbodies, go for the 660/12, it'll take you as far as you want to go and you'll feel cool with it.

Tom Petty was famous for the 660/12 and the 360/12. It is unknown what exact 12-string he uses in the studio these days as he has too many!

Welcome to the Forum

You mentioned you were offered a 2004 660/12 for the same price as a new one, if I understand you correctly. RIC went through a price increase in '07. The '04 should be lower priced, although the FG may be more desireable to many.

I'm not a guitar player persay but I personally like the look of the V64 better.

I have a regular 360/12 and a 660/12. There are things I prefer about the 360 family body style, but as a playing instrument I play my 660/12 99x as much as my 360/12. The neck width and string splay are kind to my clumsy fingers.

A 660/12 will also come in handy onstage when you then decide you need a 660/6 and a 650c for other guitars to play with minimal adjustment. I happen to know this.

Welcome to the Forum, JT.

If I were in your shoes, I'd go for the classic style of the 360-12V64, taking into account your analysis and the advice you've received here so far.

Thanks everyone you are all great help.

Now I have simulated the string spacing by doing a trick on my Danelectro. Not sure how valid my simulations is but its going to give me some kind of indication on how it will be like with that kind of string spacing. I put two capo's on the 3'rd and 4'th fret on my Dano. Then I moved the strings around so they measure 36mm from E string to E string. I spaced the strings so it was looking like its looking on 360 nut pictures closeups. This should simulate a 41.4mm neck at nut with 2.7 mm free space on the edges of the fret board. Hopefully the distance between the outer E strings is marginally greater than 36mm (~1.417") on the 360/12v64.

This spacing worked for me. It was a bit tight but its probably making the situation worse as I was simulating with the 4'th fret as basis and that gives smaller distance between the frets. Not sure how smart it is to test like that but I could not find any better way ... If I'm being offered the 360/12v64 for a sensible price I will for sure test it before I buy it anyway. I have Dano reserve nuts that I could slot with 360/12 spacing but I would not be able to simulate how the smaller neck size feels like.

I have been playing mandolin and maybe thats good to practice on if you want to excercise tight spacing

At the moment I'm 50%-50% on the choice between 660/12 and 360/12v64 but that really gives me more options
So I will relax and think it all over. The nice thing is that there are a few instruments for sale over here and that will hopefully increase the possibility
of obtaining a sensible price.

Welcome to the forum. The 360/12v64 will be the classic Rick sound, and that model is no longer being produced. But that MG 660/12 is absolutely gorgeous! Tough to pick one over the other.

I hate to say it, but Ric had a few years of poorly set-up 12-strings. The nut on mine was not playable at all, and the bridge was off-center. The string spacing on that 2004 660/12 looks like 12 uniformly spaced lines, especially at the bridge. You can easily replace the nut, but a new bridge is a whole extra ordeal. I wouldn't buy that. I saw several like that back then, and was perplexed as to how they got out that way. I played a 2008 660/12 that was set up really well.

steverok wrote:I hate to say it, but Ric had a few years of poorly set-up 12-strings. The nut on mine was not playable at all, and the bridge was off-center. The string spacing on that 2004 660/12 looks like 12 uniformly spaced lines, especially at the bridge. You can easily replace the nut, but a new bridge is a whole extra ordeal. I wouldn't buy that. I saw several like that back then, and was perplexed as to how they got out that way. I played a 2008 660/12 that was set up really well.

I have received some better pictures:
http://www.satellite-calculations.com/G ... Saddle.JPG
http://www.satellite-calculations.com/G ... cture2.JPG

If the bridge is not mounted offset it would be a bit easier to buy new saddle and reslot (guess I have to let a luthier make the slots for the strings). From this and the previous pictures I linked to I cant see that the bridge is mounted offset. What do you (and any one in here ) think ?

The nut does not look bad ?
http://www.satellite-calculations.com/G ... ut/nut.JPG

Neck width
360 and 620 = 1.63" at nut
660 = 1.75" at nut

The nut doesn't look so hot either. You would need a new nut and all new saddles for the bridge. The slots are in the center of most of those saddles, resulting in 12 uniformly spaced strings ... ooey.

steverok wrote:The nut doesn't look so hot either. You would need a new nut and all new saddles for the bridge. The slots are in the center of most of those saddles, resulting in 12 uniformly spaced strings ... ooey.

Ok. But if the seller offer me a new bridge ($125) and a new nut ($9) do you think the guitar will be ok ?
I have done reslotting before but I think I will leave that work to an experienced luthier if I buy the guitar.
Theese guitars is wery hard to get over here. Seller has also agreed to lower the price because of the
need for a new bridge. I will also get 14 days money back if I am not satisfied.