Around and Around: Thinking Before Posting

[admin]

I would ask that we all think about our choice of topic titles and the manner in which we respond to one another in our posts before we click on the "Submit" button.

A number of very good topics and excellent questions continue to be asked with regard to Rickenbacker instruments on this Forum. Unfortunately, these questions are sometimes asked in a manner that reveals a significant level of frustration, resentment or "attitude" that has an otherwise excellent topic doomed from the outset.

I would like to ask for tolerance when responding to one another. Thinking ahead, however, is one of the greatest gifts we have been given when it comes to relating to one another. This allows moderators to avoid editing, deleting posts and locking threads.

It also saves hours of writing behind the scenes trying to explain to posters why posts have been changed by the moderators. I can assure you that moderators are here to moderate, not modify. As we are thinking ahead to 2009, could we please consider that skillful editing of our own posts first and foremost saves us all conflict and hard feelings in the end.

[jaymi]

Peter,
Some excellent points in your previous post. I think for the most part, a place without frustrations and concerns is a utopian nirvana that none of us will see in this lifetime. That said, it is important that people consider what and how and they are posting but I also think it is important to reflect on the fact that perception is NOT reality in most cases and some of the thread that have been locked lately have only been locked because they have quotes and /or posts that are reflecting some challenges in the product lines offered. I do not think that it is necessary to lock out posts/members because of their opinions (keeping in mind that we all have one)...The most recent lockdowns to me have been interesting because it appears that if someone phrases a question/concern in a way that could be PERCEIVED as negative, it is earmarked for closure because others having a similar opinion feel like they can be free to post and not be flamed. Unfortunately, this does not always happen but there seems to be a trend going on here that starts to border on censorship based on opinion.

i am disappointed by this turn of events and the perpetuation of this has been one of the reasons why I have not posted in a very long time up until the last 2-3 weeks or so.

[thinneckrick]

Peter , I agree with you that people need to think or even possible cool down a little before hitting the button . However, What has been happening here has not been moderating . It is, im sad to say, censorship in its purest form. I understand moderating explicit or vulgar content but non of the recent posts that have been locked possessed any of this . Perhaps the moderaters should think before "modifing" or deleting posts and threads here. Musicians are artists in the truest sense. therefore, they are inherently passionent about thier craft and things pertaining to it . I have seen nothing vulgar or obscene . Merely passionate responces to issues that are relevant to them . Remember people have and are fighting for our basic freedoms every day . censorship is wrong and a violation of our basic rights.

[rickenbrother]

censorship is wrong and a violation of our basic rights.

So you think you have the right to tell Peter how to run his forum? I don't think what we do here is censorship, it's following a guideline of rules for the classy forum that Peter wants. Peter pays the bill every month to keep the forum going. You agreed to abide by his rules when you joined, whether you read them or not.
There are other forums on the internet that allow forumites to conduct themselves in a rude and offensive manner. If that's the way someone people want to conduct themselves, they can choose to do it at one of those forums.

As Evan said to someone here yesterday:

I had the feeling that you may be having fun by seeing how much of a hornet's nest you can stir up!

I've had the feeling for quite a while, that a handful of forumites DO get a kick out of stirring up the hornets nest and testing the limits of what they will get away with.

This forum is my sanctuary. I love this forum and the Rickenbacker products it was created for. I have a high regard of respect and admiration for Peter, RIC, John Hall, Ben Hall and the rest of the RIC crew, the other moderators here and of course, my fellow forumites.
I became a moderator here because Peter asked me. I couldn't be more honored and also couldn't find a better way to thank him and give back to a place that has given so much to me.
Turn the tables, put yourself in a moderators place. If you would choose to let nonsense go on, knowing the rules and fully agreeing with them even if you DIDN"T have to read them to have the same basic reasoning and respect for the people here and the people at RIC?
If you would choose to let nonsense go on, you wouldn't be a good choice for a moderator.

Like Peter has asked, "Think before posting and starting topics". Also use your better judgment when doing so.

[thinneckrick]

Wow ! Who's being rude Joey ?? I said nothing rude or offensive . I merely stated my opinion on this serious issue . I see reality and do not live in a fantasy land where all is hearts, flowers, sunshine, and beautiful views. Time to think here my friend . Step into the light . Dont take the brown acid . Dont drink the kool aid . I REST MY CASE

[sloop_john_b]

Jeff, think of this forum as more of a "fan club".

[epitreture]

To be honest, I'm sort of afraid to post on this forum. There's lots of great information on here about these wonderful instruments so I mostly just read and keep my opinions to myself. And that's a shame. Argument is a natural part of life and if it's done in a polite, logical manner, it should be allowed to grace this forum. While I respect the way that Peter runs the forum, I sometimes I feel as if I've stepped into that "Twilight Zone" episode about the little kid who wishes people away if they don't smile or do whatever he says. Unfortunately there are people who lose their temper and ruin it for the rest of us by using offensive language and behaving childishly. I do not agree with all of the policies of RIC, but they do make the best guitars in the world and that's certainly something that none of us would argue about. OK now, group hug !

[winston]

I do not believe that Joey is being rude Jeff. He is simply stating the obvious in a more direct and clear manner for those who continually spurn explanations that have been previously provided both behind the scenes through the PM system and via posts such as Peter made this morning.

It is sad that we find ourselves having to moderate at all. In truth it is only because a small minority have chosen to flaunt the established rules of this forum at every small opportunity that presents itself, making our jobs a nightmare.

I am very disapointed with those who knowingly and purposefully set out to try and change the culture of this forum with blatant disregard for the rules established by its founder and strongly supported by the majority of its membership.

[admin]

As you will remember this forum was created following the initial experiment with the newsgroup alt.guitar.rickenbacker which was unmoderated. For those who wish to see how well human nature did without rules you may search the Internet for the results. I think you may agree that the outcome was less than desirable.

From the very beginning the RickResource Forum adopted a number of basic rules which are in place today. A respect for others and a sensitivity with regard to their feeling and avoiding issues of politics, religion and sexuality. Those moderating here have kindly agreed to assist the RickResource Forum and as such look out for those who may be freely posting with disregard for the rules. In such instances it is the mandate of moderators to edit, delete or lock threads that do not meet this expected standard. These rules are simple and reasonable.

With freedom of expression, high on all of our lists, also comes responsibility. From the earliest days it has been made clear that this is not a "post whatever you want" forum. A respect for others and a sensitivity toward their feelings is the order of the day.

Critiques of music or Rickenbacker instruments is certainly permitted, however, not at the expense of others' feelings. When we offend without knowing it is only common courtesy to apologize. Deliberately offending others will not stand here including deliberate insults or sarcasm that is intended to hurt. It is entirely possible to comment on characteristics of a Rickenbacker that you may wish changed or that your find to be problematic in a language that speaks to the issue without turning up the heat or offending others.

I am simply asking that we do our level best and take the time necessary to use those social skills that allow for assertion without aggression, balance rather than impulsivness, caring instead of recklessness and above all support in place of the alienation of others.

[Scastles]

For the most part I agree with your thoughts on this, Peter. How I feel really doesn't matter, because it's your forum. However, I'd hate for someone to have to second guess his or herself when it comes to making what might be construed as a questionable or deprecating observation. I don't think it's the intent of the forum to have members 'walking on egg shells'. True, we should all think before we hit the submit button. I think most here do exactly that, but we certainly don't all agree on everything. Sensitivity can often run high here on certain subjects, and responses often reflect it.
I think if you find a persons remarks objectionable or argumenative about 'certain things' maybe the moderators should PM this person to remind them of what is in the best interest here for everyone. Then possibly keeping it from escalating. Otherwise, the more you scratch it, the more it itches.

[admin]

An excellent post Stan. No one should walk on egg-shells and that has never been the intent of this Forum. I would add that an exceedingly small number of posts are deleted or edited. Moreover, often PMs do go out to posters and it is typically when such measures are ineffective that additional steps are taken.

[1965]

Musicians are artists in the truest sense. therefore, they are inherently passionent about thier craft and things pertaining to it . I have seen nothing vulgar or obscene . Merely passionate responces to issues that are relevant to them .

Great post. Rickenbacker makes great instruments (or I wouldn't have almost $9000 worth of them). But I genuinely feel that critique from their customers can only help drive them to make better products. No person was attacked here, we're just talking about guitars.

[admin]

Wes: Exactly right. It is about the guitars and basses and also the many relationships that we have developed while learning about these instruments. Without one another we would never have collected as much valuable information as we have. I am all for passion.

[jaymi]

Wes: Exactly right. It is about the guitars and basses and also the many relationships that we have developed while learning about these instruments. Without one another we would never have collected as much valuable information as we have. I am all for passion.

This is an excellent point. It is about the instruments...I think there are some things that arise revolving around points that certain people make which really do not contribute to the information we are trying to obtain--even some of the info that comes from the company. I believe this is a place where people reveal their frustrations and then it becomes a "battle" and words are spoken. I have seen threads closed where people are sharing their opinions and when the opinion is stated rather flatly or bluntly, it causes a "ruckus" as someone said and then it goes to a war of words....this is human nature, everyone wants to be right, everyone wants to be heard etc.
I am very much all for passion or I would not have had 81(now) rickenbacker basses. There is no such thing as "everyone always getting along" but people want to be heard and the internet is the most vocal place I have seen. This is your forum and you have made the rules and i understand that. I respect your rules and will continue as long as I want to post here but I am disappointed at what I have seen even in this thread with the backlashing at certain individuals based on the way they present their cases...

[kiramdear]

For me this is at least as much about the people - I'll say more so, than about gaining technical information or opinions. I think of it like a school, or a library, or sometimes like a funny party. The information gives us something to talk about, but it's the exchange that matters, and the relationship that we share. I feel I have friends here and that's what keeps me plugged in.

So that's what I think about before I post. We try to keep it pleasant and intelligent because info goes down easier that way, and then we all fell like returning tomorrow. I mean, what's to fight about with Rickenbackers? World peace, the economy, OK, have at it guys in a free speech argumentative political forum. Some people love to butt heads all day long and that's fine. But not me. Not here.

Censorship? Don't you censor yourself every time you address a group of polite people? I certainly do, because to not do so sucks. No one will hear what I am trying to say if I insult them. That's why it's not just right, but smart to use good manners and choose one's words thoughtfully.

I love you guys