Paul Barth had a guitar company?
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Re: Paul Barth had a guitar company?
That's a cool looking guitar. I am not sure it has anything to do with Rickenbacker though.
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- iamthebassman
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Re: Paul Barth had a guitar company?
The Mall Cop?
Re: Paul Barth had a guitar company?
Paul Barth Mall Copwhojamfan wrote:Huh?
- jingle_jangle
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Re: Paul Barth had a guitar company?
Deke Dickerson and I had a brief discussion at NAMM on Friday about this very topic--Barth's involvement in guitar manufacturing with Electro String, his own Barth guitars (note similarity to Rickenbacker body silhouette on this one), and later for Magnatone.
There is a connection, I've hear it said that Barth's guitars were built in rhe Electro String plant (untrue) because of the similarity.
Deke has played these and owns one of Barth's Magnatones, which are climbing in price at a pretty high rate. He says it's much ado about nothing--crude construction coupled with poor playability and generic bad sound. This one DOES, however, seem to have DeArmond pickups, so the sound could be something a bit above the norm.
There is a connection, I've hear it said that Barth's guitars were built in rhe Electro String plant (untrue) because of the similarity.
Deke has played these and owns one of Barth's Magnatones, which are climbing in price at a pretty high rate. He says it's much ado about nothing--crude construction coupled with poor playability and generic bad sound. This one DOES, however, seem to have DeArmond pickups, so the sound could be something a bit above the norm.
Re: Paul Barth had a guitar company?
My first 6 string back in 1965 (66??) was a Barth. Question, it was made in Japan; same company? Mine was the same color but looked more like a 400 series influence, IIRC (been a LONG time ago).
- jingle_jangle
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Re: Paul Barth had a guitar company?
I think the later ones were Japanese-made...they are different in appearance from this one (as you indicate), and are similar in appearance, color, hardware, and shape to instruments like Teisco and Kingston. They also play like Teiscos.
Re: Paul Barth had a guitar company?
That it did, Paul, that it did. Baseball bat neck, cheap really cheap hardware. Tuners were atrocious. PB was out of the picture by then, no?jingle_jangle wrote:I think the later ones were Japanese-made...they are different in appearance from this one (as you indicate), and are similar in appearance, color, hardware, and shape to instruments like Teisco and Kingston. They also play like Teiscos.
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Re: Paul Barth had a guitar company?
Reliable history of this has yet to be written.
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Re: Paul Barth had a guitar company?
I sure wish this picture was still up. Let me ask you this, if I had a 1961 Barth sunburst, new, still in the orig' case and with the orig' strings still on it (except for one) and I had someone remove the strings and white pick guard to check the pod dates, would it still be worth what it was (if any) before everything was removed?? BTW This guitar is better known as the 1959 Magnatone Mark VIII, or if you're a RIC' fan from Ireland (www.rorygallagher.com) It's the 1962 Barth model 200. I still don't know where they got the year or model name but I'm still working on that. If I'm correct in my assumption, all of those Magnatones under Barth are pre-'55 Barths(as mine was purchased in '55 in downtown Santa Ana) and have just a different decal on the head stock. This guitar was one of four in a line. One single pickup, two double pickup and one bass and are in a 1958 Magnatone catalogue featuring Paul Barth guitars for sale on Ebay right now. The problem is that Barth left Rickenbacker in May of '57 which means he designed,manufactured and sold my guitar while still at Rickenbacker. Either they knew about it and his line of guitars exist in an old Rickenbacker catalogue feat. Barth guitars somewhere or they didn't know about it and Paul was crankin them out the back door either at Santa Ana or the Western ave. wharehouse in LA in '53 while the business was undergoing ownership change from Adolph to F.C. Hall. I mean who would have known. He was still in charge of everything at that time and stockpiling a whole line of guitars would have been easy. He leaves RIC' in May of '57, suddenly he has a full Barth line in '58 Magnatone catalogue then Magna Electronics merges with Esty Electronics in late '58 and design duties go from Paul Bigsby to Paul Barth and "vwalla" a new line of Magnatones identical to my Barth. Call me crazy but if anyone out there has a '59 Magnatone Mark VIII, crack it open, I'll be very surprised if those pod dates aren't pre-'55. How does one attach pics to this forum? So I can post pics of the guitar right here. I'm so glad I found you guys!. I've been going nuts since June. Please! tell me I'm on crack and then give me the real story. I have to go crack this guitar open! Thanks, Mannyoctagon wrote:1961 Barth?
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Re: Paul Barth had a guitar company?
Where did you get your information, or is it mostly assumption?
Re: Paul Barth had a guitar company?
Something like this oneon ebay?Several good pictures of it.
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Re: Paul Barth had a guitar company?
Manny, I have a friend that knew Paul Barth back in the mid 1960s up until he passed away. He also knew "Doc" Kauffman, Leo Fender and George Fullerton. Dale has quite a bit of history and info about the Barth and Magnatone Guitars made and designed in the mid 1950s while Paul Barth was working for F.C. Hall the new owner of Electro-String Rickenbacker Guitars. You can Email Dale Fortune at: mercwoodie@hotmail.com
As for me I can only give you 2nd hand info, but Dale who also worked for the Electro-String Corp. in the early 1970s is a wealth of info along with Steve Soest. They both grew up in Santa Ana California and have been doing guitar work since the mid 1960s. Dale also presently owns a MKI Barth Guitar which I have seen, with it's original case made in the 1950s. He also has said to me that he owned other Barth Guitars in the 1960s, some were Magnatone and some were Barth models all being the same type that resembled a 325 Rickenbacker with a longer fret scale. I hope this sheds some light on the Barth conection with Rickenbacker.
Thoughtfully speaking, James Souther
As for me I can only give you 2nd hand info, but Dale who also worked for the Electro-String Corp. in the early 1970s is a wealth of info along with Steve Soest. They both grew up in Santa Ana California and have been doing guitar work since the mid 1960s. Dale also presently owns a MKI Barth Guitar which I have seen, with it's original case made in the 1950s. He also has said to me that he owned other Barth Guitars in the 1960s, some were Magnatone and some were Barth models all being the same type that resembled a 325 Rickenbacker with a longer fret scale. I hope this sheds some light on the Barth conection with Rickenbacker.
Thoughtfully speaking, James Souther
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Re: Paul Barth had a guitar company?
I am a huge fan of Magnatone amps, and own three of them. They were, of course, known for their lush, pitch-shifting "true vibrato" and excellent, deep, capacitor-driven reverb, which is more of a real large-hall sound than the percussive tone of Fender units.
Magnatone (and, of course, Barth) guitars leave me unimpressed, however. Despite the iconic Rickenbacker profile, the odd headstock, bolt-neck, and strange pickguard shape seem calculated to neutralize the Rickenbacker visuals. The result is a design that, at its best, appears generic, and at its worst, memorably ugly.The couple that I've actually had play time on, ironically, have a similar feel to the Combo 400 from the mid '50s.
Magnatone (and, of course, Barth) guitars leave me unimpressed, however. Despite the iconic Rickenbacker profile, the odd headstock, bolt-neck, and strange pickguard shape seem calculated to neutralize the Rickenbacker visuals. The result is a design that, at its best, appears generic, and at its worst, memorably ugly.The couple that I've actually had play time on, ironically, have a similar feel to the Combo 400 from the mid '50s.