Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

aceonbass wrote:I believe the seven screw part is better because of the two extra screws, but the two in front of it are unnecessary. I've seen this problem with newer ones too. It's not the biggest deal in the world though. I have a tendency to focus on details like this and "blueprint" parts to my liking. Anyway, before this becomes another tailpiece thread, let's get back to discussions centering around horseshoes .

since we started this on the horsey thread, let's pick it up here.

we have all discussed tail lift and some of the reasons why we believe this is happening. I have tried the 5 screw, the 7 seven screw and some of the new ones and at some point, the majority of them lift.

Dr Ted said that the seven screw should not lift but indicated that on one or two that I have had, the lift occurs from wood that is not level. has anyone else come across this issue? I put a 7 screw on a 2001 JG 4003 and it did not lift but had one that came on a 1985 white /BT that was coming off the body and the screws were tight...

thoughts???

I have two basses Jaymi a 4001 and a 4003.........not a lot I admit, but I am happy to report neither of mine have any lift. I use Rotosound strings on both basses. I suppose that I have been fortunate. This topic seems to come every once in a while and I wonder if we will ever get to the bottom of the issue.

winston wrote:I have two basses Jaymi a 4001 and a 4003.........not a lot I admit, but I am happy to report neither of mine have any lift. I use Rotosound strings on both basses. I suppose that I have been fortunate. This topic seems to come every once in a while and I wonder if we will ever get to the bottom of the issue.

in some ways, I think we have come to the bottom. Dr Ted and Dane both have made excellent commentaries on the bridge and i know that there are others who have thoughts and past experiences and it is worth discussing as long as it does not get too "passionate" ya know?

Lift has become something of an hysteria among Rickenbacker bass owners. The truth is, most of the time it is simply nothing to worry about. As I stated on the other thread, there are two kinds of lift. Real and false. Real lift is an actual deflection of the zinc body of the tailpiece. False lift is when the tailpiece appears to have lift because of the underlying wood is not totally flat. I believe false lift to be far more common. Hand crafted wood items are seldom if ever laser-straight and true. Subtle variations serve to make instruments unique and interesting and in them selves are not a problem. Now consider that the RIC tailpiece is a fairly long flat-bottomed part. Because it is straight and rigid it will tend to highlight slight imperfections in the surface of the wood sometimes giving the illusion of lift. Also sometimes the tailpiece bottoms out in the route slightly and does not seat all the way, this is again variations due to sanding and finishing. I believe this is what most people perceive has lift. None of this is truly problematic.

There is also real lift which does happen but is seldom detrimental to the instrument. I own some Ricks with real lift and they settled in and are stable. In extreme cases though the finish flakes off of the body on either side of the tailpiece right at the point of inflection but that is really not common. My 4003SPC Blackstar has this problem. Someday it will get a new tailpice (as soon as I can find a BT 5 screw) and go to Paul W to have its finish repaired.

Real lift is usually caused by a gap under the bridge part of the tailpice. The well where the 3 screws go is sometimes too deep so the wood and zinc are not touching. If the screws are over tightened in this case they can actually bend the tailpiece upward a bit at the ends enough so the string tension can pull the whole assembly forward causing lift.

The height of the fingerboard relative to the body face can vary. On basses where the height of the fingerboard is greater than average, the bridge has to be adjusted up to get the strings to clear the 20th fret. The higher the bridge the sharper the string angle. More extreme lift seems to happen on basses with sharper string angles from the saddles to the stop. On the plus side, the higher the bridge the easier it is to access the saddle adjusting screws.

High tension strings can further increase the chances of lift.

Nearly all cases of lift are stable and not a threat to the instrument in any way. If it bothers you, have your tailpiece shimmed with wood or use washers to fill in the space. This won't straighten the bend but it will stop it from getting worse. If you don't shim or washer, be careful not to overtighten the three screws under the bridge. Shimming can actually improve the depth and clarity of the low notes by increasing the contact area under the bridge. This was a totally unexpected consequence that made me fall in love with my '80 4001 after suffering years of disappointing low end.

jaymi wrote: I put a 7 screw on a 2001 JG 4003 and it did not lift but had one that came on a 1985 white /BT that was coming off the body and the screws were tight...

thoughts???

That sounds somewhere between unusual and impossible. (Not callin' you a liar btw, Jaymi...I just can't imagine it and have never seen or heard of it happening. ) Six of my Rick basses have the 7-screw tail (2 4003 S/5's, 1 4003 S/8, 2 4003S's, and a 4003) and it wouldn't be possible to wedge a sheet of notebook paper under the back of the tail on any of them.

How high was the tail lifting?

It had a strong resemblance to a 75 that i once had...I could slip a dine under the back of the bridge....it was the first one I ever saw that way.....

Jeff, no offense taken

I went Hipshot for a while for palm mute purposes but I've since come back to the stock bridge. I'm no purist--I guess you could call me a functionalist. And sure enough when I retried the stock bridge I found some really pleasing results. While some output is lost transitioning from the Hipshot, the overall sound cleans up nicely and I was shocked to find that I was able to set up a much lower, more comfortable action than I had with the Hipshot, giving a great fretless sound. Not only this but I believe RIC has gotten the "saddle wobble" thing totally figured out, because it doesn't happen at all on my 2008 FL. The saddles look to be of a new material.

Joshua, I've heard from other Rick 4001/3 players who also tried the Hipshot bridge, weren't pleased with it and then reinstalled the stock bridge.

cassius987 wrote:... I believe RIC has gotten the "saddle wobble" thing totally figured out, because it doesn't happen at all on my 2008 FL. The saddles look to be of a new material.

Really? That's great news. Can you post any close-up pics?

rickfan60 wrote:Real lift is usually caused by a gap under the bridge part of the tailpice. The well where the 3 screws go is sometimes too deep so the wood and zinc are not touching. If the screws are over tightened in this case they can actually bend the tailpiece upward a bit at the ends enough so the string tension can pull the whole assembly forward causing lift.

This is where it would be good for owners to know what the proper torque specs are for the screws. I'm normally one not to mess with stuff too much, but most of us may have a reason at one time or another to remove the tailpiece, and putting back on properly seems to a big concern......

Of the three I have now (all of which have .040-.95 GHS rounds), the '69 has NO lift....the '72 has lifted a fair amount since 2006 (it has a V63 tailpiece) and my original '79 has just a slight lift; the tailpiece on this bass has only been off maybe twice in the past 30 years.

Really? That's great news. Can you post any close-up pics?

I'll take some shots of it later tonight. On my 2007 4003 the material is gray-metallic; my friend Derek's very late 2007 4003 has a brighter material, and my 2008 FL has a material that is bright enough to be called blue-metallic. In Derek's case saddle wobble isn't eliminated but it's a lot better on his bass than it was on my 2007; on my 2008 FL those saddles are flush to the bridge and are lodged in there REALLY tight, so no wobble.

I don't dislike the Hipshot but the stock bridge is ultimately better sounding for my purposes (jazz mostly). The appeal of the Hipshot sonically is, if anything, extra boost of the low end. But who doesn't have a sub-harmonic or even just an EQ on their preamp these days? I like the punchier sound of the stock bridge.

rickfan60 wrote:Lift has become something of an hysteria among Rickenbacker bass owners. The truth is, most of the time it is simply nothing to worry about...

Thanks for taking the time to write that, Ted. Your entire post should be a "sticky" or in the FAQ, IMHO.

Personally: I learn so much here at the RRF.
This forum is a continuous source of entertainment and education.
Many of the things I've learned are a result of others being as detail oriented as I.

Until I read of the tail lift, I honestly wasn't aware of it. Once I was aware, I looked for it on my RIC basses. I found minor examples on a couple, but in my case it turned out to be the harmless type.

Thanks again for that insight.

rickfan60 wrote:Lift has become something of an hysteria among Rickenbacker bass owners. The truth is, most of the time it is simply nothing to worry about.

+1000!

"oh what a beautiful morning....."

woodyng wrote:"oh what a beautiful morning....."

It's a little crisp (6 degrees F) where I am today. How about you, Woody?

Last night I played a couple of my Ricks. They never fail to amaze me with how good they sound and feel.