Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

A piano player friend and myself continue to compare notes with regard to our favourite jazz tone. He would seem to have little time for the tone of the electric jazz bass in traditional jazz preferring the stand up double bass. I, on the other hand, have no problem with the electric bass in this genre. I would be interested in your comments.

By "traditional jazz" Peter, I'm not certain what you mean. At first, I thought you were talking about the folk roots of jazz during it's birth in New Orleans, Buddy Bolden comes to mind. Tunes like Copenhagen, Shake the Shimmy Like My Sister Kate, or Muskrat Ramble, are what I'd call traditional jazz.

Then there was the next generation that took jazz a step farther, and began composing new music on the folk roots of jazz; Joe "King" Oliver, Jellyroll Morton, etc.

These guys in the video clip seem to be playing more in a swing style. I suppose that has developed into a tradition all of its own, although the compositions themselves are still largely under copyright.

So what are we talking about here? Is it just the role, or sound of which bass is more "proper" disregarding the definition of "traditional?"

JimK

I definitely prefer upright for jazz, but can't complain about a good electric with good tone either.

I've had people say my '92 4003FL FG sounds a lot like an upright. I think they're right!

It all depends on the tune and the quality of the musician. In my view as long as it sounds like it fits in with the overall sound and the bass is played well with an expressive voice, then I tend to not focus on what should or should not be used as an instrument in that piece.

I generally like both instruments myself when used appropriately.

If anyone sees a youtube peformance with an electric bass doing a standup job (ha) on a traditional jazz tune I would like to know about it.

I think most jazz bassists prefer the bass violin over electric bass but can / will play either. A friend of mine is a very accomplished jazz bassist. He mostly plays his uprights but he has a Fender and is not afraid to use it Though he was rarely seen with one, great Ray Brown often brought is P-Bass along on tours. It was well-worn from tagging along as a backup.

To me, traditional jazz means the post-1949/1950 "Birth of the Cool" landmark up until about 1961 or 1962. The "Hard-Bop" period of Mingus, Blakey's Jazz Messengers, Coltrane, Evans, Monk, Miles, etc.

I've used both my upright and electric basses to play standards, but in retrospect, I have to claim purist on this one. THe upright is what is both expected and needed for this stuff. A bit like McCartney's comment about his Hofner being like CHaplin's cane; it's just what the audience is looking for.

As an aside, an electric makes this stuff too easy. Back in the day, the way a bass player got volume from his instrument was to have insanely high action. Bleed, and thou shalt be rewarded.

Well said, John!

jingle_jangle wrote:Well said, John!

+1!

sloop_john_b wrote:

jingle_jangle wrote:Well said, John!

+1!

+2

Bleed? Go suck an egg!

jdogric12aolcom wrote:I've had people say my '92 4003FL FG sounds a lot like an upright. I think they're right!

They are SO RIGHT!

I would say that my 4003FL has some upright qualities; mainly because the upright (when set-up for jazz, that is) is actually a fairly treble-heavy instrument. It also has some good low end. The RIC is similar in that it scoops out the mids a fair bit. I use that to advantage with my Gallien-Krueger amp with the contour (a mid scoop and bass/treble boost, basically) and presence set high. With all of my other bases, I set the contour on or near zero and boost the mids.

Anyway, where the RIC 4003FL falls short of the upright sound is in the woody mid growl. Not that that's a bad thing; just different.

And no, you don't HAVE to bleed, but I wanted to make it clear that upright players back in 50s could stand right up against a horn section by raising that action crazy high and pullin' them strings like there's no tomorrow. Those were the days, my friend.