Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Could someone describe how to go about disconnecting the middle pickup on a 325C58----which wire to disconnect and where?
Thanks---
Bob

Bob, if I may ask.....why?

I will try to second-guess you a bit here and say that if it is because you heard or read that that Lennon's 325 had the middle p/up disconnected to get a particular sound, that is a myth...not true.

If this isn't the reason, I apologize in advance...

leftybass wrote:Bob, if I may ask.....why?

I will try to second-guess you a bit here and say that if it is because you heard or read that that Lennon's 325 had the middle p/up disconnected to get a particular sound, that is a myth...not true.

If this isn't the reason, I apologize in advance...

How could anyone know that for sure?

Hi Bob -

Simply heat up a 10-15 watt soldering iron. Set your c58 on a sturdy, clean table and remove the pickguard. Cover the topside of the pickguard with a polishing cloth and fold it back. The polishing cloth is there to prevent the knobs scratching the finish and any solder spits. There will be three grey wires coming from the pickups - locate the middle one - perhaps you will need to loosen the middle pickup and look to see if the wire you are wiggling is also wiggling next to the middle pickup. There are two leads from each pickup - a hot and a ground wire (hot to the switch, ground to back of a pot).

Your iron now hot and tinned (solder flowed onto it), simply heat the solder around the switch quickly - then pull out the middle pickup hot. Then heat the back of the pot and remove that wire. Cover the ends of the middle pickup leads in electrical tape and tuck into the cavity. Now unplug the iron, and install the pickguard.

OR

Locate middle pickup wire and cut it. Not recommended, but this is another option.

Now you will have just two pickups to blend. I've done this before and found the sound clearer when blended, and together. However, I prefer the sound of the 3 pickups blended. This is a quickly reversible mod. As far as what was happening in Lennon's guitar - wiring wise, it's a cyclical debate. Do what you want with your guitar.

leftybass wrote:Bob, if I may ask.....why?

I will try to second-guess you a bit here and say that if it is because you heard or read that that Lennon's 325 had the middle p/up disconnected to get a particular sound, that is a myth...not true.

If this isn't the reason, I apologize in advance...

+1
I watch this stuff, somewhat from afar as I readily acknowledge I don't have the playing, or technical skills to offer a decisive opinion....

But here's my thought, FWIW, on screwing with the 325 wiring.

The guitar was what it was, Lennon was who he was. Anyone reading anything at all about JL has to admit he probably wouldn't have spent loads of time worrying about mods to his guitar. The swap from the original vibrato to the Bigsby was pretty much a no-brainer--the former was a pain in the butt to play with, the latter was cool, it was American, and it was on lots of guitars in England at the time.

Did he have a problem with the pick clicking on the middle p/u?, well, maybe, but I gotta tell ya, I can fool with tone controls on the guitar and amp to make any significant difference in tone pretty much negligible. And at the volumes, and circumstances they played in, I find it difficult to believe anyone could know for sure.

Bill

I think the evidence for Lennon's tinkering with his guitars is well-documented. I'm not saying I think he disconnected the middle pickup specifically, but there are photos of the 325 with only two screws holding the pickguard on - I'm sure he was messing with something.

At any rate, I don't believe anyone can say for certain what actually happened to that guitar.

Also note that the tone control is at this point inside the guitar.

You've possibly answered your own question/observation, Dan--the pickguard came off so the pot could be re-installed.

An American-made CTS pot, with an American nut. A player who is not too tech-minded, turning knobs aggressively during set after set. Oven knobs (at least initially), which develop quite a bit of torque on the pots, with their larger diameter. The pot starts to rotate, and eventually the nut comes loose. Perhaps it's somehow lost. In Germany or England, a nut for an American-made pot would be a tough thing to find. Even today, they can be, as Radio Shack and other chain stores stock Chinese pot nut assortments!

Disconnecting the center pickup makes little sense to me, in any case. Now, wiring it to a fifth pot isn't authentic, but it sure gives a lot of tonal options. Or you could dispense with the tone pots and wire the selector switch to one volume pot, and the center pickup to a second, which would give you a two-knob, one switch guitar with lots of tonal variations, and the ability to cut treble or bass (if necessary) on your amp, instead.

So he took off screws at random and then didn't bother to fix the problem? Again, nobody can say for sure.

Ron DeMarino on V81: "The electronics were terrible — the amount of cold-solder joints, and so on. We had an honest relationship, and I had no hesitation to tell him — it was done terribly. Now I never asked if he had done all that messing with it, so whether he did it or had someone else do it, I can't say for absolute certain. . . but he did like to fiddle-faddle with everything, and he'd just fiddled it to the point where he couldn't play it."

Here is why...

For so many years that people have followed The Beatles music, there have been people trying to replicate the pre-Sullivan sounds of Lennon's guitar playing with what was available, 60's 325s, 320s, V59s, V63s and even C58s. Diconnecting the middle p/up is not the correct pathway.

If you have one of the above guitars, then you will not be able to get that sound without modifying it....Thing is, Lennon didn't have to do a thing at all. The 1958 325 was a different animal althogether, and wired/switched unlike any other 3/4 Capri made since then....even with the two additional pots added. The p/up combinations are different, among other things.

dpowell wrote:So he took off screws at random and then didn't bother to fix the problem? Again, nobody can say for sure.

Ron DeMarino on V81: "The electronics were terrible — the amount of cold-solder joints, and so on. We had an honest relationship, and I had no hesitation to tell him — it was done terribly. Now I never asked if he had done all that messing with it, so whether he did it or had someone else do it, I can't say for absolute certain. . . but he did like to fiddle-faddle with everything, and he'd just fiddled it to the point where he couldn't play it."

Thanks for straightening me out on that, Dan. Sometimes my aging mind wanders, and it builds these ridiculous scenarios, and...

During the time period that the guitar was being painted black it had issues with the wiring; there is an account that when he originally got it back it would not work properly in terms of output, and Lennon gave it back to be sorted out.

By the time it got to DiMarino the guts were far from original.

jingle_jangle wrote:
Thanks for straightening me out on that, Dan. Sometimes my aging mind wanders, and it builds these ridiculous scenarios, and...

I wouldn't call it ridiculous, Paul, the knob could certainly have fallen in on its own...but I'm willing to give John more credit for modifying his guitars, because I think he cared about the sound/image of his Rickenbacker.

John, the wiring issue remains a point of contention. IIRC, there hasn't been one example of a 325 with wiring different than the C-Series, including the very similar 325 at Rickenbacker that the 325c58 was based on. I'm not saying John's 325 didn't have the 'Lambert' wiring, just reiterating that it's unknowable.

dpowell wrote: IIRC, there hasn't been one example of a 325 with wiring different than the C-Series, including the very similar 325 at Rickenbacker that the 325c58 was based on. I'm not saying John's 325 didn't have the 'Lambert' wiring, just reiterating that it's unknowable.

Any 325 made after 1958 cannot be used as a comparison.

Dan, every original 1958 325 that has been found to date all have wiring that is different than what you find in the C-Series. If you would happen to be the lucky soul to find #V82 or #V93 and they are unaltered, then you might find two others that have wire looms similar to #V81....these were the two other 325s that went to Germany with Lennon's original and probably had the 4-pot loom, rather than the two-pot loom that the other surviving '58s have.

The '58 325 carcass at RIC that was used for the C58 body/neck dimensions had no wiring or other hardware so I'm told.....from the holes routed in it for other endeavors I doubt that it could be made complete and playable.

John Hall:

"Unfortunately, Lambert work and Isenberg's comments are theoretical- there are no guitars extant that back up that scheme. However, the wiring as we have it conforms to all the other guitars we made in that period and one I have that's awfully close to Lennon's. I also can't see a special circuit being made for only one model based on my long familiarity with the factory."

"In other words, 10 units DO exist which most certainly DO have the basis of the wiring we currently use; it's just that RIC and Lambert have extrapolated differently how the additional pots might have been wired. Our version DOESN'T require the addition of any special switch.

You'll also note that photos of several guitars I own are on Lambert's site, as well as photos that I provided him, so you can't say we didn't think carefully about this."

From this thread: http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum_view_ ... 018&Page=1