Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Hello everybody, I have just received a Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin, which I bought for 555,- € over here in Germany. The acoustic version is available for under 500,- € and in America it sells below $ 500,-. This guitar is very well made, plays wonderful (I haver NEVER seen another acoustic guitar with such an incredible playability!) and it sounds very good. The company claims that it has been manufactured in Canada. So how is this possible? All other instruments I know in this price range are made in Far East nowadays.

Are they not making any profit with this instrument at Godin?
Are they cheating and the instrument is really made in China and only packed in Canada?

If the answer to both questions is "no", why can other companies in America and Europe not do the same? Why is even a very simply constructed guitar like the Fender Highway One Strat more expensive? And why, if it is possible to build a quality instrument like that in Canada, do most companies produce their budget instruments in Far East?

The only experience I have with Godins is in one of my bands. The singer has two acoustics and his wife has a mandolin. Maybe I'm not a great judge of them because I don't use them every day. But I did not find them to be anything spectacular. Reasonably good players, to be sure. Maybe I just didn't get to play one of their better models.

Doctorno, I have been lusting after a Godin 5th Avenue and / or a Gretsch Synchromatic, leaning towards the Synchro due to its deco bridge and cosmetics.

Tell me a bit about the tones, etc.

And congrats on your new guitar!

Every time I play one at the shop, I fall in love with these...


http://godinguitars.com/godin5thavenuep.htm

Thank you all for your replies. My intention was not to discuss the pros and cons of the Godin 5th Avenue, but to discuss the question whether or not it is possible to build high-quality guitars in America and/or Europe for a reasonable price. Nevertheless I would like to respond to the remarks concerning the 5th Avenue.

I have no experience with other Godin guitars. But I am convinced that with the 5th Avenue Godin has something extraordinary to offer. The 5th Avenue is a guitar with great character. In my opinion the guitar is quite unique on today´s market.

First of all the Godin 5th Avenue looks just perfect. Mine is the black model and the dark finish looks marvellous. I have searched my dictionary but it seems there is no neutral translation for the German "matt" concerning the finish - this finish is not a "dull" or "weak" finish - it just looks like an old style black European piano - not one of the modern high-gloss ones but one of the vintage black ones - an old Grotrian or something like that. Simply beautiful!

What is more the 5th Avenue has a beautiful tone. I will write more about this soon. Right now I could not resist but buy the acoustic version immediately after I had received the Kingpin. I will be back with more details concerning the sound and tone of this guitar after I have received the acoustic version.

I believe both "versions" are the exact same guitars, save the 1 pickup and the controls for said pickup, though I could be wrong.

I would not believe it, but they say quite clearly that all their five little factories are in Canada. I wonder what their secret is.

You have to read the fine print. In my neighborhood they are selling fake Rickenbackers more expensive than the Godins from a company that claims to be North American. A little investigation reveals the guitars to be Asian however.

I tend too believe that if something seems too good to be true, it probably isn't true. Buyer be warned, and all of that. But I'm willing to be convinced - most builders agree that today's guitars are, on the whole, being built better and cheaper than ever before. I'd like to know what's the deal in Canada.

kiramdear wrote:I would not believe it, but they say quite clearly that all their five little factories are in Canada. I wonder what their secret is.

You have to read the fine print. In my neighborhood they are selling fake Rickenbackers more expensive than the Godins from a company that claims to be North American. A little investigation reveals the guitars to be Asian however.

I tend too believe that if something seems too good to be true, it probably isn't true. Buyer be warned, and all of that. But I'm willing to be convinced - most builders agree that today's guitars are, on the whole, being built better and cheaper than ever before. I'd like to know what's the deal in Canada.

I assure you they're made in Canada, along with Norman acoustic guitars, Art&Lutherie and a couple smaller companies pooled together under one big umbrella.


The secret is, people from Quebec are willing to work for Poutines and cigarettes.

Now that's Lean Manufacturing at work!

I think the secret is that wild cherry isn't an expensive tone wood. Also, it is a laminate (plywood). That's OK, many fine archtops have traditionally been made that way.

Here in America, we call that finish satin. Or, if you're older, you might call it french polish.

tennis_nick wrote:I believe both "versions" are the exact same guitars, save the 1 pickup and the controls for said pickup, though I could be wrong.

It seems that under the pickup they have set in a piece of solid wood to avoid feedback. You cannot see it properly, it might be a part of the construction, but I do not think so. In a few days I will be able to tell you, whether this piece of wood is also found on the acoustic version. And, of course, on the electric version you need to use different strings. Phosphor Bronze acoustic guitar strings do not work with electro-magnetic pickups.

tennis_nick wrote:The secret is, people from Quebec are willing to work for Poutines and cigarettes.

Does this mean that wages in Quebec are considerably lower than elsewhere in Canada and the US or have you just been joking?

Clint wrote:I think the secret is that wild cherry isn't an expensive tone wood.

I do not think that the cost of materials is the main factor for prices nowadays. Some of the cheap far Eastern guitars are made with quite "expensive" wood. So this cannot be the main reason for the low price of the 5th Avenue.

tennis_nick wrote:The secret is, people from Quebec are willing to work for Poutines and cigarettes.

Sounds darned unappetizing to me...



Two more points:

Wild cherry is not necessarily a euphemism for a laminate, although Godin and A & L guitars use it in laminated form. It's an alternative to maple and yields a crisper tone than the usual choice of mahogany for some guitars.

"French polishing" using shellac and pumice in the traditional way can yield a finish that is quite glossy, so comparing the matte finish of this Godin and the newer Gretsch Synchro archtop, which has the same look and feel, to a French-polished surface, is perhaps not accurate. "Matte" as a description used in American English to describe a low-sheen surface (as distinguished from "flat" and "eggshell"). These are all really generic and relative terms, however, which actually are based upon a more scientific way of describing surface reflectivity, as a percentage of light reflected and the quality of the scattered light as well.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_appearance

also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloss_(mat ... ppearance)

jingle_jangle wrote:Wild cherry is not necessarily a euphemism for a laminate, although Godin and A & L guitars use it in laminated form. It's an alternative to maple and yields a crisper tone than the usual choice of mahogany for some guitars.

And it also looks very good. I have got a handbuilt classical guitar by a German luthier with a cherry back, cherry sides and a cedar top. Looks good and sounds awesome. It is also very loud for a nylon string guitar.

Yep. Cherry has very nice density and this results in crisper sound transmission and better energy retention and conversion than softer mahogany. Wild cherry (as opposed to farm-grown) does have issues with sap inclusions, which may be why it's often used in laminates.

Re: density...I have an old, Brazilian-made Giannini classical guitar. I'd estimate it is about 45 years old. Got it from George for $20.00...it has very thin Brasilian Rosewood sides and back, a mahogany neck and ebony fretboard. Probably cost about $300.00 new back then. It has a couple of cracks in the wood, from a previous owner knocking it around. It has a very nice sound, with lovely projection. There's a lot to be said for dense and hard woods for the sides and back of acoustic guitars.

That's something I didn't know. The old yahoos around here call anything you rub out to a dull sheen french polish. Especially if you breathe on it first and use your shirt sleeve. I thought it was a denigrating colloquialism.