Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Hi again fellows...I know this maybe sounds kinda nerd my subject....anyway.
I have most of the time used flatwound (tomastik pure nickel strings on my 4001c64s or D addario chromes flats....and roundwound stainless steels strings on my 4003.
Anyway....I tried to put a set of GHS stainless steels rounds on the 4001c64s...IMO this bass sounded kinda thin whit the roundwound stainless steels...but my 4003 sounds splendid whit both kinda strings...flats or rounds.
I have a 70´s high gain in the bridge on my 4001c64s...(yepp a Mod I know)..and then the toaster of course.
I´ll guess that that the toaster on the 4001 is the biggest deal here...and correct if im wrong here...but dosent this bass also have the capicitator...that cuts bass on the bridge pick up also?...just like on the old 4001 basses etc.
Best Danny.

fourstringfrank wrote:.I tried to put a set of GHS stainless steels rounds on the 4001c64s...IMO this bass sounded kinda thin whit the roundwound stainless steels...but my 4003 sounds splendid whit both kinda strings...flats or rounds.
I have a 70´s high gain in the bridge on my 4001c64s...(yepp a Mod I know)..and then the toaster of course.
I´ll guess that that the toaster on the 4001 is the biggest deal here...and correct if im wrong here...but dosent this bass also have the capicitator...that cuts bass on the bridge pick up also?...just like on the old 4001 basses etc.
Best Danny.

Yes, it has the cap. And mine also sounded "thin" with either rounds or flats.

It depends on your playing style, settings, amp, and preferences of course but I'd give it a shot without the cap. I did around 5 years ago and never looked back. The cap was in the circuit all those years ago because the amps that were available at the time were very different than they are today. Unless you're playing through an antique amp, I'd say bypass that bad boy and let that bass breathe. It will thank you (and so will your audience) for years to come.

I know, I know...Here come the stones!

Blah, blah sacrilege. Blah, blah, blah, losing it's "Rick-ness"...Blah blah blah...

What..Ever, Grandpa!

It's all about what you like. I'd say go for flats like PMC has for the past 48 years, but if you like rounds, go for it!

You should have the tone circut switch installed this way you can use it for both sounds, with cap/ without the cap, thinking of doing that with mine.

As far as the cap being put in for old time amps I've never understood that reasoning, when I first bypassed the cap in my 79 4001 in Peru I was playing the bass through a 5 watt antique tube radio with an 8" speaker and the bass came alive even with that thing. I regularly play my uncapped Ricks through my 1959 Ampeg Bassamp in my bedroom and they sound great. A capped Rick sounds thin though just about anything unless your amp's got the tonal shaping capabilities to overcome the big mid scoop you get with the cap, and years ago about the only amp that could do that was the mighty SVT. I personally think the cap almost knocked Rick basses off the playing field during the late 70's early 80's and JH didn't change them a minute too soon. People I know used to say they were too bright and you couldn't get any bottom with them, it was actually the lack of mids and upper lows that killed them, they had no midrange presence which is really where most of your presence is in a bass especially with a smaller older amp. The only thing i thought the cap was nice for was that old deep but clicky sound people like Maurice Gibbs got playing them with a pick. If you balance your pickups correctly there is absolutely no need for the cap unless you're one of those people who like that scooped sound. I once rigged up one of my 4001's to use one of the tone controls as a volume control for the cap, now that was interesting, it was almost like having a mid control on the bass.

I'm sure this has been debated before, but I really don't think the .0047uF cap was put there to "save" smaller amps, but because Rickenbacker envisioned a different way of balancing the pickups on multiple-pickup guitars and basses than has become "standard." Consider that the single pickup instruments do not have the cap. Also, it would be easy enough to blow speakers on vulnerable small amps using just the un-capped neck pickup if one were so inclined. Further, consider the fifth "blend" knob on the guitars of the time (and the 4005). It seems to me that Ric were expecting most players, of both guitar and bass, to be using some combination of both pickups at nearly all times, and thus the cap was placed inline in order to further thin out the treble pickup. This allows one to use the pickups as a crude "crossover", especially if one rolls off the tone on the bass pickup slightly as well.

Given the unpleasant tone produced, I really don't think Ric expected anyone to use the treble pickup, especially on the basses, all by itself, at least not for a proper "bass" tone. I'm guessing that they envisioned the treble pickup being used for a "baritone guitar" tone, as several '60s basses offered similar low-cut capacitor switching systems. I do agree with Bob that the cap "trope" outlasted its usefulness by about a decade or so, since bass players were expecting hotter and fuller output in general by the '70s, and there was a more standard expectation of what guitar/bass controls should do by then. (Nevertheless I'd personally still prefer a '70s bass with the cap in! )

Just my tuppence's worth on the cap debate. Certainly, anyone interested in using the treble pickup alone nowadays would be wise to bypass the cap. As I always blend the two pickups in some fashion or other, either stereo or mono, I prefer the bass scoop of the cap - it cleans up the mids without having to EQ that curve as severely, and in stereo, it leads very naturally to the Squiry sound I prefer. I'm such a freak that I put in a .0047uF cap on the treble pickup of my Hamer 12-string to get it to match my Ricky better!

rictified wrote:If you balance your pickups correctly there is absolutely no need for the cap unless you're one of those people who like that scooped sound.

And which is all the more reason that it's a good thing that we've got the push-pull pot nowadays - we can all be satisfied!

I do think you can get a full-bodied sound blending the pickups even with the cap in, but I agree with you, Bob, that if you want more solid low-mids coming out of the bass naturally, bypassing the cap is the way to go.

And to try to undo the thread drift damage I've been perpetuating, my V63 definitely sounds better to me with roundwounds, but then again that's my predilection! I still have to find a good set of flats for it. I plan on trying TIs, but I'm concerned that the tension would be too low for the way I have my V63 set up, since it's got such a strong back pull to handle all the years of Roto Swings....

And to try to undo the thread drift damage I've been perpetuating...

Sorry to redo your undo!!!

rictified wrote:A capped Rick sounds thin though just about anything unless your amp's got the tonal shaping capabilities to overcome the big mid scoop you get with the cap.....it was actually the lack of mids and upper lows that killed them, they had no midrange presence which is really where most of your presence is in a bass.....there is absolutely no need for the cap unless you're one of those people who like that scooped sound...

I find the opposite case with my 4003 that has a toaster and magnetic shoes horseshoe pickup in it. I gets more mids with the cap inline vs. out of circuit.

I love thread drift!

A couple gigs ago, I played my uncapped C64S. After my band played, a couple of the members of one of the other bands told me that they liked my playing and our music and asked me about my Rick. They were very interested in it. One of them was the singer and one was the bass player, and they kept calling it "the Rick bass that doesn't sound like a Rick bass...and that's a good thing."

I tried to figure out exactly what they were trying to say. I asked them what it was about Rick basses that they didn't like and/or who's Rick bass tone they didn't like. They couldn't really tell me. I told them that Rick basses are much more versatile than people tend to think they are. I told them maybe it was the grunty borrowed David Eden amp that I was playing through that night. They told me that if that's the case, then I should always play through that amp from now on.

I think the tone that they liked was due to the cap bypass.

It just sounds better for my playing style. I know bypassing the cap won't be best for everyone's style, but for me there's no question.

I just wish I knew about it 20 years ago.

jps wrote:

And to try to undo the thread drift damage I've been perpetuating...

Sorry to redo your undo!!!

rictified wrote:A capped Rick sounds thin though just about anything unless your amp's got the tonal shaping capabilities to overcome the big mid scoop you get with the cap.....it was actually the lack of mids and upper lows that killed them, they had no midrange presence which is really where most of your presence is in a bass.....there is absolutely no need for the cap unless you're one of those people who like that scooped sound...

I find the opposite case with my 4003 that has a toaster and magnetic shoes horseshoe pickup in it. I gets more mids with the cap inline vs. out of circuit.

+1 - I have the cap in on my 4003S magnet shoe'd treble pup and it balances beautifully with a '73 neck higain.

And as far as innies and outties, its all good.

pacealot wrote:And to try to undo the thread drift damage I've been perpetuating, my V63 definitely sounds better to me with roundwounds, but then again that's my predilection! I still have to find a good set of flats for it. I plan on trying TIs, but I'm concerned that the tension would be too low for the way I have my V63 set up, since it's got such a strong back pull to handle all the years of Roto Swings....

Try some D'Addadrio Chromes, they sound a lot like RW's but have a more full balanced tone with plenty of biting top end if you want it., they are very articulate sounding. TI's get very middy after a few months, Chromes keep their tone for a long time. TI's also feel like you're playing with spaghetti instead of strings, they can have a nice feel though and are nice for dead pickups, they're loud as hell compared to most strings.

To be honest, I love the cap on basses. I take it off my guitars, but on a 4001 it's perfect. I run both pickups full up so that you get that meaty plunk from the neck pickup with the added punch from the high end of the HS. That said, I only play with flats. If I was playing with rounds, I'm pretty sure I'd want the cap outta there.

I like it both ways. Oh wait, that doesn't sound good!
On my V63, I could easily live with just the hot un-capped HS alone, but then again the '71 with the toaster and capped greenie Hi-gain is pure Heaven!