Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

The recent thread about The Stooges reforming made me want to ask this question to the forum attendees.

I think that each band member brings a unique metal (no pun intended) into the band alloy mix...each person contributing something that makes a band have its particular sound and content. Some members contribute a lot, some just little and perhaps some, very, very little at all.

Much of that has to do with the role of each of the members. Frontmen/women are very important to the sound of a band, obviously, as the most recognized mouthpiece lyrically for the band. Even more important, I feel, if they are also musicians who contribute their melody/sound via an instrument (piano, guitar, bass, drums, whatever) they have more intrinsic value to the band. AND, if they're the primary songwriter for the band then they have an even greater importance to the band. So, with this in mind, I wish there was some kind of "rating" system for band members.

A singer/lead-player/songwriter would almost always get an instant rating of 51/100. The other band members would add in various amounts to total 100 points for the band. Then, members could be free to come and go as they felt...BUT, if the "value" of the band ever dips below 50..then the band has to officially rename and be called something else. So, a Curt Kobain, a Jello Biafra, a Jimi Hendrix, a John Lennon, a Don Henley, a Jerry Garcia, a Freddy Mercury, etc...leaving a band would require the band to rename/rebrand.

Am I crazy?

Some things just die.

That sounds like a reasonable standard to me, unless it's bands like Journey, Styx, or REO Speedwagon, whom I wish had broken up permanently before they ever formed in the first place.

AC/DC got away with it pretty well

I generally don't like points systems, or rating systems since they seem to induce an unnecessary level of competition among band members. This inevitably becomes quite destructive. Witness the Byrds.

One's contribution level should be allowed to ebb and flow. Sometimes creative output will soar, sometimes that same member may wish to take a back seat, and play "sideman" for a while.

Second, I don't think I'd like playing and singing in a band where I had to shoulder the burden of lead guitarist, lead singer, frontman and main song writer. That's a lot to ask of one musician.

So perhaps bands, like other living organisms should be allowed to grow and develop, mature, and finally pass on into history. The problem then becomes knowing when to quit gracefully when it's time to go.

JimK

Danotron wrote:AC/DC got away with it pretty well

Ah good point. Perhaps I should have had breakfast and a cuppa joe or two before posting. That's definitely a case where a new lead singer worked out, though obviously it does not always. I stand behind my caveat regarding the trifecta of Journey, Styx, and REO Speedwagon however.

Well said, Jim.

I think that the band is just as important as the lead singer in creating a certain sound, because they compliment each other. Witness the Jimi Hendrix Experience vs. the Band of Gypsys or The Beatles vs. The Plastic Ono Band.

OK...maybe I'm wrong on this matter. Maybe it should be left to a vote by the music public instead? I was just kind of excited this weekend to find out that the Dead Kennedys would be playing at our local "Harmony Festival"...And when I looked at the band pic, Jello Biafra was certainly NOT amongst the members, nor, I believe were other prominent members of the original band. Jello Biafra commented on it and said, pretty much that the group of musicians travelling as The Dead Kennedys really should be ashamed of themselves for doing so (I'm heavily paraphrasing him) and that the breakup of the band was really a major heartache of his life. I'm sure the replacement singer is a competent singer, it just seems so wrong for the band to be called "The Dead Kennedys" without Jello.

Whatever the case, I'm quite certain we all agree with Jeff about Styx, REO Speedwagon and Journey.

I don't think they should use the name if Jello doesn't want them to.

IMHO a professional band should dissolve when they can no longer uphold the standard that they had previously established and/or when they cannot deliver a product that meets the expectations of their ardent listeners.

winston wrote:IMHO a professional band should dissolve when they can no longer uphold the standard that they had previously established and/or when they cannot deliver a product that meets the expectations of their ardent listeners.

I do agree with that. I thought what bands like Led Zepplin did after John Bonham passed away,was noble because they felt could never quite be the same band without him. However I'm sure it's hard for some bands with members who depend on the band and have no other good way to go on and make a living to just stop doing what they do best. Just because they may form a new band, there is no guarantee for success.

I would submit that when a band member passes away his/her pointshare should be inherited somehow by the remaining members and not be controlled by marriage partners or family. That doesn't apply to personal profits, royalties, etc. but to the artistic and management future of the band, yes.

Sound reasonable?

Bighouse wrote:OK...maybe I'm wrong on this matter. Maybe it should be left to a vote by the music public instead? I was just kind of excited this weekend to find out that the Dead Kennedys would be playing at our local "Harmony Festival"...And when I looked at the band pic, Jello Biafra was certainly NOT amongst the members, nor, I believe were other prominent members of the original band. Jello Biafra commented on it and said, pretty much that the group of musicians travelling as The Dead Kennedys really should be ashamed of themselves for doing so (I'm heavily paraphrasing him) and that the breakup of the band was really a major heartache of his life. I'm sure the replacement singer is a competent singer, it just seems so wrong for the band to be called "The Dead Kennedys" without Jello.

Whatever the case, I'm quite certain we all agree with Jeff about Styx, REO Speedwagon and Journey.

Funny you should mention the Dead Kennedys reforming, because a band I was in went on tour supporting them when they first got back together. The problem was, Jello didn't want anything to do with the band, and these guys who wrote the songs, wanted to still do them. At least that is what we were told, and knowing Jellos reputation for stirring things up, it appeared to be the truth. Brandon Cruz did a fine job on the vocals and the band was tight. Night after night, people of all ages were packing the clubs.

The same thing happened with the Undertones. The singer didn't want to do it, so the band, who wrote the songs, got someone to step in and take the reighns. They packed the places as well. The New York Dolls just did a new record and tour.

When a group of musicians can no longer maintain the vibe of the group, or positively change from lineup changes, then it's time to call it a day.IMHO

While I used the AC/DC example I do admit it's rare to change singers and have it work. I know I would be very disappointed if I was going to see the Dead Kennedy's and expected to see Jello sing only to have it be someone else.

But it doesn't only have to be the singer. Band chemistry is delicate. I never thought the Who sounded the same after Keith Moon died; and how about the new Guns and Roses with only Axl.

The intended word is "mettle" ... unintended or not, it was actually a good pun!

...The problem was, Jello didn't want anything to do with the band, and these guys who wrote the songs, wanted to still do them. At least that is what we were told, and knowing Jellos reputation for stirring things up, it appeared to be the truth. ..When a group of musicians can no longer maintain the vibe of the group, or positively change from lineup changes, then it's time to call it a day.IMHO

http://www.punknews.org/article/17358 .... and I'll copyclip the essentials...

Interviewer: So no chance at a like a Dead Kennedys musical, I know the Ramones are doing one.

Jello: I hope not (laughter). I mean the other three guys have done quite a job of dumbing down and pi**ing on everything the Dead Kennedys ever stood for. There’s even a feel-good DVD in the cash-in 25th Anniversary version of Fresh Fruit.

All in order to get people to buy the same album yet again. And it’s all just mellow nostalgia like VH1 talking about the Eagles or something. It’s something I wanted no part of for good reason.

That’s not what Dead Kennedys means to me.

Interviewer: Was the lyrical content, the image and the radical parts of the band – that was your design mostly?

Jello: I wrote most of the music too.