Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Hi guys,
Long time... Been really busy in the past few weeks and I wasn't around much...

Our band want to record a few demos for personal use (nothing that will go out to the radio or something like that) and I'd like to know how can we use the equipment we have in the best way possible, we lack some required equipment (mainly enough preamps and a kick mic) but I am looking for a way to make-do with what we have.
Most of the equipment here is mine (it's what I bought in the last incursion to the US of A a few months ago...). I plan on buying some more (and better) preamps next year and perhaps some more mics.

What we want to record in a single live session:
Drum set
2 guitars (we can live with 1, but if possible - we rather record both guitars at once)
Bass guitar
(vocals will be recorded separately)

What we have
Mics:
1X AKG C214
1X Shure Beta 57a
1X Shure SM58
3X AKG D880
(bass will be recorded using the amplifier's pre-out directly to the soundcard)

Soundcard, preamps, etc...
Soundcard - Echo audiofire 12
2 x M-Audio DMP3 pre amps
Leem console that I plan on using as a preamp for 2 more microphones (only 2 output channels)
Lexicon alpha soundcard I plan on using as a 7th preamp (mic in, line out to the audiofire 12) if we'd get a kick mic (D112 or something similar) in time...

My question is pretty simple (although I am sure there are no simple answers...)
What would be the best way to use what we have? which mic where? (with or without removing the 2nd guitar to get the extra mic...)

Thanks in advance!

Wow...loaded question! Probably a hundred different opinions on what to do, but this is my two cents' worth.

First, I would try the three AKG D880 mics on the drums, for little other reason than to have something similar surrounding the kit. For mic placement, Google "drum three mic technique" and you'll come up with many opinions on where to place the three mics. Maybe even experiment with different placements and record the different versions before you get to really recording the band.

Next, I'd put the Beta 57a on one guitar cab and the C214 on another, again, experimenting with which mic sounds better on which cabinet and where on the cabinets.

This leaves you with the SM58 wherever you want to try it.

As far as the preamps, I'm no help on that one just for being unfamiliar with the pieces you list.

Sorry for not having much more than that.

If you can I would mike the bass amp as well (close miked but off axis seems to work well) you get a natural compression from a dynamic mike that will make things that little bit easier
I often use a sm57 and although the response tapers off on the low end, I find that the slight "vocal" nature of the 57 (although it was designed as an instrument mike) will give the bass a more audable "voice" in the mix
There are many better mikes around (I like Mike Oldfield ) but there is something about the 57...
and better is not always best better...

I have tried kick drum mikes on bass amps as they have a very flat response curves, it worked well but sounded a little un interesting.
I have also used condensor mikes for bass, and it came out that bit too honest...

Eden.

Thanks guys,

Bruce - 3 dynamic mics? all the 3 mic techniques I found were using 2 overhead condensers, did you ever try any of them with 3 dynamic mics?
Eden - thanks, I'll try a dynamic mic then, I found out that the mixer we have has 2 extra output channels so it meansI can easily use all 6 (now 7) mics.

Actually - on the same day I posted this question - we tried recording and it came out pretty nice, a very simple placement of the C214 in front of the set, 0.5 meter away in the middle (that is - facing the toms, but getting the entire kit balanced) and the SM58 as a kick mic (sounds pretty nice after some eq work...)
The nice thing about this configuration was that we had almost NO leakage at all! the other 3 amps almost didn't get into the drums channels at all which is great (both mics used were cardioid and didn't face the amps while the room is treated and the amount of returns was minimal)

The guitar player brought his own condenser, it's a Samson C01, I know it's probably not as good as my AKG, but we might add it as a second overhead for a nice stereo image, I found 2 really interesting techniques:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Fjuz7jXzs - This one explains how to use only 2 overhead for a nice stereo image and how to avoid phase issues using a simple distance measurement technique.
And the Glyn johns technique - http://www.danalexanderaudio.com/glynjohns.htm

I think I'll do a hybrid of these and see how it works (measuring the way these guys showed to make sure there are no phase issues and placing the mics as Glyn johns did), I don't want to use the "recordman" technique as is even though it's looks simpler and pretty nice because I don't want the mics to face forward and capture the rest of the instruments.

The nice thing about the setup we had (only 4 mics) was that the amount of leakage was almost non existant, I checked each channel and the VU meters on the other channels barely moved. If the new mics will introduce more leakage I might revert back to the original configuration.

Why don't I have a demo to show? well - we had some annoying firewire issues that introduced LOTS of pops and cracks into the recording, apparently Ricoh (the firewire chipset on my thinkpad T61p) is not a good firewire chipset, I purchased a Texas instruments firewire expresscard to hopfully make it work, I'll know if it is works or not soon when I'll go back to the studio to try again...

gibsonlp wrote:Bruce - 3 dynamic mics? all the 3 mic techniques I found were using 2 overhead condensers, did you ever try any of them with 3 dynamic mics?

Never with three dynamics. But I was basing it on what you have on hand versus what would be ideal in the examples. And my thinking was that using the 57a and the C214 as overheads might sound out of whack since they're two totally different mics.