Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I would like to lay down some tracks on my Korg D1600 hard disc recorder (I'm a novice at recording). Now that I own a RIC 12 string, I wish to achieve a RIC 12-string sound similar to that of the early Byrds. Some suggested settings would be appreciated. For example, should I use the onboard compressor of the D1600 or use a stand-alone one? Should I mic an amp or go direct into the recorder.

Suggestions of techniques would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks...Ron

Mic your amp if you already have your sound!

jps wrote:Mic your amp if you already have your sound!

+1, I prefer amp micing now... it's a lot easier for me to get "that tone".

By all means, if your amp is making the sound you want, mic it or run it through a line out if it has one. I seldom mic my amp because I record in my office and there either tends to be too much outside noise going on - or it's 3:00 AM and I don't want to wake the neighbors and my wife, so I run silently, direct out of my Traynor YBA200 bass amp head and into the D1600. I set the amp controls pretty neutral, but scoop the midrange a bit.

Option #2 is to buy a JangleBox. I use it before running into the amp head, or before running into the Korg's guitar input if I'm not using the amp. The JB makes things much easier. You set the two knobs at about 2/3, flip the switch to the "bright" setting and play. The signal can be run into the D1600 with little or no adjustment on the recorder and sounds great. Being an old dog and preferring real knobs to virtual knobs, I generally make most of my tone adjustments using the amp and JangleBox and don't mess much with the recorder's EQ and effects. The guitar is usually set using the neck and bridge pickups, fifth knob about half-way, and all V&T knobs full-up.

Option #3 is to simply plug your guitar into the recorder and start tweaking. I don't usually do this, so I did a little test to see how close I could get to "the sound" using nothing but the controls and effects on the recorder. The guitar was set as above - neck and bridge, tone and volume all the way up - but first.....some ground rules that you may want to obey:

The twelve is a very important part of the sound on just about anything you use it on. Give it two tracks (push the "input/tuner" button and assign your input jack to two different tracks). They can be set exactly the same in terms of EQ and effects (or differently if you choose) but it tends to yield a fuller, richer sound. What is even better is to record the twelve parts twice. This gives you four tracks of twelve-string with slight differences - even if you think you played it exactly the same both times. It's a good way to increase richness without generally increasing mud or losing transparency. You can always mix them down to two, or even one track later if you're running short of tracks. I would do this whether running directly into the recorder, micing an amp, using a DI, etc. If you have tracks available, use them. It simply gives you more control over the guitar's sound.

The best Byrd-like sound that I seemed to be able to come up with on the D1600 was arrived at by doing the following:
[For those not familiar with this recorder, it uses a combination of touch-screen controls, a big rotary dial and assorted push buttons. This will probably sound pretty confusing, but in reality....it is! here goes...]
The Guitar is my 370 WB using just the neck/bridge combo, just like a 360. Strings are T.I. Jazz Flats.

Guitar plugged into the guitar input.
- Input/Tuner button - set to send the signal to tracks 7 and 8.
- EQ/Phase button - EQ for tracks 7 and 8 set as follows (the controls are set up like little clocks) Low = 9:00-10:00, High = cranked almost all the way up, Freq = 2:00, Mids = all the way off
- Insert Effect Button > "INS/ASN" > Assign > set to "Input". "Effect Type" set to "1 in 2 out x2".
- Push the "Insert to" arrow on the screen. On the new screen that opens, assign Effect #1 to tracks 7 and 8 and push OK (yes, this is a pain in the butt compared to just plugging in a JangleBox)
Push the "Ins/Eff 1" tab. Now spin the big dial until the effect labeled "GT4:Clean" comes up. Touch the GT4:Clean label and a new screen opens up showing the five sub-categories or features that make up this effect (Compressor, P4EQ, Amp Simulator, Chorus/Flanger and Delay). Touching them one by one opens them up so that you can turn that part of the program on or off, or adjust its levels. Touch Delay, then the on/off sign near the top and turn it off using the rotary dial, Push OK (we don't need no stinkin' delay). Do the same with Chorus/Flanger. You can certainly use these if you want, but these instructions show exactly how I got the sound in the sample I will post below. Push "Amp Sim" and set it to Amp #1, Push the P4EQ tab. On the screen that opens, it has the various frequencies divided up so that you can boost or reduce them as needed. I boost the high ones. The right column should read 0 db, 0 db and +3 db from top to bottom. Push the "next" button at the top and the really high ones will open up. I had the FC4 set at 20.0, the Q4 set at 1.0 the G4 set at 0 db and the trim set at 70. Push OK.

Now open the Compressor tab. The idea with the EQ and Compressor tabs is to get a very bright sound with that curious sounding attack when you pluck a note, that compressors tend to make - and to help generate that "bee in a beer-can" tone on the D and G strings that you hear on most McGuinn leads, maybe with just a bit of distortion. There is a reason that he played most solos on the D and G (in particular) strings. It's that angry bee tone. The Korg will do a decent job of it, but is not quite as good at generating it as some amps (a Dual Showman with twin JBL D130's running full-blast does a good job) or a JangleBox will do it in mellower venues. I had the compressor set as folows: Rate 2.3:1, Threshld: -13 db, Attack:12, Release: 47, G Level: +8 db (I have no clue what all these stand for, I just turned virtual knobs until I felt like I was getting the best tone). Push OK, then OK again and start playing. I added a little bit of hall reverb using the Master Effects button and its "Final effect" tab. The end result of about 20 minutes of fooling around with the settings sounded like this (it probably would have sounded better if I had tuned the B strings first, but it is what it is). If nothing else, it really makes me appreciate the ease of use and simplicity of my JangleBox.

http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/M ... /D1600.mp3

and various samples using the JangleBox are here - recorded on my D1600 or D1200:
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/M ... amples.mp3

Todd,

Thank you for taking the time to write a comprehensive treatise on utilizing the Korg 1600 for recording that famous RIC 12-string sound. It's nice to get a response from a knowledgeable source, especially one who also has a Korg 1600. Your postings are always very informative. I will print out your posting and use it as my "reference manual" when setting up my Korg 1600.

Your recorded sound on the two sound samples is just what I'm looking for....nice job...your RIC-12 really cuts through without sounding harsh. Incidently, nice harmonies.

regards...Ron

Ron:

Experiment with different recording techniques....Not any old amp will get your Ric 12 in the Byrd ball park A Fender clean tone is getting you close..... I personally like using a line6 pod on blackface setting with mild compression and reverd to taste to get that Byrd sound........ You can hear it on this board under "old blues using 360-12" Good luck and looking forward to hearing one of your recordings......... I'm using a Yamaha AW1600 for a workstation

Don't believe everything you hear....my harmonies are purely synthetic and I actually couldn't sing a decent harmony if my life depended on it. For writing and recording demos though, my little Harmony G stomp box has been worth its weight in gold. The twelve-string sample is certainly not the best and cleanest playing I've ever done, but it at least shows the type of tone that the recorder can produce without outside help. It was actually closer to the real thing than I originally thought it would be. It's a pretty neat little recorder, and I'm still only scratching the surface of what it can do and spend a fair amount of time digging through the manual and learning the basics.

The biggest problem that I have is always mixing. I have a pair of studio monitors, a couple different stereo systems and several pairs of headphones (including some which are theoretically designed to be usable for mixing) and none of them ever agree. Just trying to get the EQ on the final mixes set so that I get the sound that I want and decent tone on most systems is always a battle. I can record in the corner of my office, but it's very tempting to build some sort of dedicated mixing booth down in the basement. At that point, the sounds of the instruments are already in there and I have a tremendous amount of adjustability with them. It's just a matter of being able to hear and achieve a good compromise that will sound reasonable on an average system, computer, iPod, etc. that's difficult. I tend to go back and forth, fooling with the mixes and trying them on different systems. One will be too harsh, another may be too dull, or too bright, or the bass is booming, or the thing sounds muddy. Mixing is really fun because everything is finally coming together, but the process can also be pretty tedious.

I've noticed that since I play all the parts on these recordings myself, by the time I get to mixing, I'm often really burned out on the tune. In the process of writing the music, figuring out lyrics, laying all the tracks down and checking them out, it seems like I end up listening to the song hundreds of times. Sometimes I'll just shelve it for a while and mix it later with a fresh attitude. I do the drums on my synthesizer using one of the programs that turns all the keys into individual percussion notes of various types. Every sound gets tapped out, one by one in about ten separate takes. When I talk to our drummer on the phone (he lives in Florida), he's always complaining that he would need four arms to play the drum parts I'm sticking in my demos. In any case, the little Korgs are pretty impressive machines, especially for people like me who can still remember the old days of recording in state-of-the-art, four-track studios.

Great advice, Todd. Thanks for taking the time to hip us all to these tips.