Pickup distance from string- why did they move it away?

[jamespaul71]

Greetings.

Early 4001s had very little distance from the body to the top of the fretboard. Everything (correct me if I'm wrong) since has had gradually increasing distance. This causes all of the pickups to be further away, and thus they lose the growly pickup overload. What was the purpose? Because the headstock angle kept increasing, did they raise the fretboard/neck so that they wouldn't have to waste as much wood? Seems strange to me. Thoughts, comments?

[beatlefreak]

Pickup height is adjustable.

[jamespaul71]

nope, neck pickup. The neck pickup at max height will be lower on a new 4003 than it would be on an early 4001 because of the extra distance between the body (thus the pickguard) and the fretboard. This isn't about the bridge pickup.

[whojamfan]

I put a toaster in the neck of my 4003AFG, and ended up having to remove both the rubber grommetts and the screws holding the pu cover to the base to get maximum height out of the pickup. There is still a bit of room between the pu cover and the strings, but the sound is certainly punchier and growls if you lean in to it. The pickup is not adjustable conventionally anymore, due to my removing the screws and grommetts, but it appears to be right in the place that allows for maximum pick/touch sensitivity and tonal variety. Also, it is nice to not have to lower the bridge pickup so far down that it loses a lot of its' character to balance out the two.

Being mainly a guitar player, I would really dig it if an experienced Ric bass player checked it out to see if I've captured the best of what both pickups, and all 3 positions, have to offer. Oh, and if one happens to show up, we gonna make some loud noise!

[rickfan60]

The move from the older 1/2" spacing to the current 1" spacing happened mid-year 1975. The official word is it was done to improve the sound. The 1" position puts the neck pickup right under some strong harmonics (where the 24th fret would be).

The basses from '75 have bigger neck pickup routes that allow them to accept either 1/2" or 1"spaced pick guards. This is the only model year that directly supports both guard types.

[jamespaul71]

The move from the older 1/2" spacing to the current 1" spacing happened mid-year 1975. The official word is it was done to improve the sound. The 1" position puts the neck pickup right under some strong harmonics (where the 24th fret would be).

The basses from '75 have bigger neck pickup routes that allow them to accept either 1/2" or 1"spaced pick guards. This is the only model year that directly supports both guard types.

I'm not talking about the 1/2" to 1" spacing, but rather the distance from the body plane and the neck plane.... eg: if you look at the bass where the neck meets the body, its the height difference between the body wood and the fretboard. On old 4001s, the distance is very small. On newer models, the distance is quite large. Since pickup height always relies upon the pick guard, and since the pick guard thickness has remained constant (right?), the height from the string is further away.

[rictified]

That can also depend on how you set up the bass, how straight the neck is, the action, etc. I almost always pull the rubber grommets off of mine also to get them closer to the strings. I've had some 4001's in which the neck pickup was pretty far from the strings, I also pull the grommets off of those.
I've had 4001's with different thickness fretboards which moved the strings much farther and closer from the strings so I think you really can't generalize about this. I had an early 90's 4003 that had very little spacing between the neck PU and the strings, it sounded great too.
As far as the 1/2 to 1" spacing goes the harmonics move all over the place as you play so i never bought the harmonics explanation. I think they're a little deeper sounding with the 1/2" spacing as the strings' vibration arc is a little bit wider 1/2" closer to the neck.

[Prowl]

From my experience with vintage ric basses, I can personally say that I can't tell the difference in tonal value from the 1/2" to 1" spacing. My 4001s bass had a pickguard with a 1/2 spacing and I couldn't tell the difference in tone from that bass to my 4003 the full 1". I think too much thought into something so miniscule is counterproductive to one's playing ears. Psychologically anyway. Just my 2 cents on the matter, and I hope I didn't come off with a "prickly demeanor"

[jps]

It can make a difference with the toaster soloed, especially if you are into playing harmonics.

[weemac]

It's the slightly thicker 70's fretboard that moves the pickup away from the strings a bit. By the early 90's the construction seems to be more like the 60's again but with more back angle on the neck to actually allow a decent action, taking into account slight differences bass to bass.
The 1/2" spacing works well for those who solo the neck position alot (like me).
If you use both pickups on most of the time I feel the 1" spacing provides a better growl..

The toaster on my RM is very close to the strings and that (with it's 7.5k ish wind) is where the sound resides...

Just another 2 cents....

Eden.

[Prowl]

isn't it possible to gain the same tonal effect by simply playing closer to the bridge pickup?

[jamespaul71]

lol you guys really really really need to read the posts again, I am NOT talking about the 1/2" or 1" spacing. This is completely different.

[Prowl]

I know exactly what you're talking about. I thought I was pretty clear in my original post here. But I hear no tonal difference between a vintage Ric with a pick up nearest the string from one backed off from the strings ever so slightly at the neck. My toaster pick up and my hi gain pickup produced the same amount of sound strength. I'm curious really why the infatuation with such a question though? I'm not trying to come off as a dick here, but does it really matter? Will the increase or decrease in millimeter completely alter the sound of your bass to the point where you would need ever piece of engineering information to solve this unsolvable mystery? Again, not trying to be a dick but I'm having a difficult time trying to understand the point of the query.

[jps]

Greetings.

Early 4001s had very little distance from the body to the top of the fretboard. Everything (correct me if I'm wrong) since has had gradually increasing distance. This causes all of the pickups to be further away, and thus they lose the growly pickup overload. What was the purpose? Thoughts, comments?

Probably part of RIC's effort to produce stronger necks.

[rictified]

I know exactly what you're talking about. I thought I was pretty clear in my original post here. But I hear no tonal difference between a vintage Ric with a pick up nearest the string from one backed off from the strings ever so slightly at the neck. My toaster pick up and my hi gain pickup produced the same amount of sound strength. I'm curious really why the infatuation with such a question though? I'm not trying to come off as a dick here, but does it really matter? Will the increase or decrease in millimeter completely alter the sound of your bass to the point where you would need ever piece of engineering information to solve this unsolvable mystery? Again, not trying to be a dick but I'm having a difficult time trying to understand the point of the query.

I think pickup distance from the strings makes a huge difference, far away they are very clean, close they're dirty, the trick is finding the right distance so that you don't hit the PU with the string and/or really distort the signal and still be able to get the dirt. I believe every Rickenbacker is a little different too, for example I have a 79 4001 right now with a thin fretboard that sounds great, I had a 78 4001 with a thick fretboard, it too sounded good but the 79 4001 blows it away. The 79 has a very classic Rickenbacker tone to it, very trebly even with flatwound strings on it.