Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

From what I hear, in the 50's and 60's, the Fender Bassman was allowed to carry signals from guitar and bass. The 60's Bassman is what Paul McCartney used (both Silver and Blackface) from '65-'69 for both bass and guitar. All the YouTube demos I've seen of a '60s Bassman only show the amp being used for guitar. Would a bass sound great through a '60s Blackface Bassman?

Here's my main question: Why did guitarists wind up using the Bassman for mostly guitar (aside from Paul McCartney, who, as I've stated, used it for both)?

I've played a reissue tweed Fender Bassman in International Vintage a while back (plugged a Gretsch 6120-1959 through it, nailing the "Who's Next" sound, as well as a '52 Fender Tele, getting some nice blues wail and country twang) and I was very impressed. If I could have a choice at a reissue Tweed amp, I'd choose the Bassman.

Jake: The Bassman did not have sufficient volume for bass guitars. Miked or for recordings it has a nice tone for bass, especially the Bassman head and cabinet and I suspect that is why McCartney used it.

Guitarists found that the Bassman produced a nice sound and has sufficient volume.

These are the reasons that we articulated in the early to mid 1960s that had the Bassman used more for guitar than bass. I am sure that there may have been others.

The Blackface Bassmans are down on wattage (40W); really only useful for small and quieter clubs when playing bass, although the tone is nice.

The early Bassmans (tweedies) simply sound great with guitar, making them a nice "go to" single amp.

I always thought that in the Blackface era, the Bandmaster sounded better for guitar than a Bassman.

Which tweed Bassman? The early ones had 1x15 and were quite different from the later 4x10 (5F6A). Leo was constantly tweaking and tuning and trying out new designs in the 50s and early 60s. Looking at the schematics you can almost see the evolution of his thinking. Many old amps have multiple inputs to handle multiple instruments--the idea being that a band might only need (or be able to afford) one good amp. It's easy to see how a guitarist trying out a "bass" amp could happen. Word spreads. A legend is born.

The later 4x10 tweed Bassman is the direct ancestor of the early Marshall heads--with modifications to use EL34 output tubes which were available in the UK rather than the American 5881 or 6L6 tubes. The BF and SF Bassman amps are a totally different animal. They make nice compact heads if you don't want reverb or tremolo. The nearest BF/SF Fender relative to the tweed Bassman is the Super Reverb, but even that is not particularly similar.

The biggest problem for bass amps is speaker excursion. If the amp can reproduce the low end down to 40Hz (or lower) then you risk damaging "guitar speakers" beyond moderate volume, especially in open backed cabinets. But if you're careful you can use them for bass. Volume, as Paul pointed out, is the other problem for bass. It takes a lot of power to produce the same apparent volume level of bass frequencies as midrange. Not necessarily a problem for recording--Mitch Easter revealed that he likes to record bass through a Twin Reverb.

The only real rule is "if it sounds good (and doesn't blow up) it is good."

Enough rambling...

I was, of course, referring to the 4 X 10 Bassman (5D6, 5E6, 5F6, 5F6A); the 1 X 15 is so uncommon as to be considered nearly extinct these days...

I still prefer the early silverface Fender amps with the Middle tone control ... every other Fender that I have tried with only Treble and Bass controls sounds "muffled" IMO.

Gary: If you ever get to tinkering, you could always try using the Baxandall circuit which makes excellent use of the bass and treble controls. It is quite a surprising difference.

Baxandall Tone Stack

The bassman started being a primarily bass amp (as Leo had originally intended) in the early 70s when the RMS power was stepped up to 100 watts. The bassman 100 is a great tube head for bass, but you need to push it to brain crushing levels to get it to break up, so for guitar it's a bit humdrum.

admin wrote:Gary: If you ever get to tinkering, you could always try using the Baxandall circuit which makes excellent use of the bass and treble controls. It is quite a surprising difference.

Baxandall Tone Stack

Thanks for that link, Peter ... I think I understand the whole boost-cut thing a little better now!

firstbassman wrote:As I've mentioned before - I have always found it ironic that, way back when, guitar players were playing through bass amps (the Bassman) and bass players were playing through guitar amps (Showman).

But when you think about it, it makes sense. Each was searching for a tone "different" from what had been available before.

Guitar players were looking for more "depth" in their sound and bass players were looking for more clarity and articulation.

Well, that's my story and I'm sticking with it.

That's because a bass through the Bassman on stage sounded muddy, if you could be heard.

johnallg wrote: That's because a bass through the Bassman on stage sounded muddy, if you could be heard.

Yup, John, exactly. That's my point.

firstbassman wrote:

johnallg wrote: That's because a bass through the Bassman on stage sounded muddy, if you could be heard.

Yup, John, exactly. That's my point.

My first amp and speaker box. Didn't take long to get a different head.

jingle_jangle wrote: I always thought that in the Blackface era, the Bandmaster sounded better for guitar than a Bassman.

Agreed, Paul, hard to beat a Bandmaster for either guitar or bass. One of the best sounding bass rigs I ever had was a '64 Bandmaster head and a 2x15 cab loaded with a pair of JBL K 140s. Absolutely killer sounding. I know of a number of guys that also use Showman or Dual Showman heads for bass due to the higher wattage.

Also, the 4x10 tweed Bassman and the 3x10 Bandmaster are two of the best sounding guitar amps ever made, IMHO, especially for Blues and old '50s era Rock & Roll. Also hard to beat a tweed Twin in either the low powered or high powered version for the old school Rock & Roll thing.