430 pickups vs. standard hi-gains

[jdawe]

I've had a 430 for 25+ years, and can get some good sounds from it. However, I'm not entirely happy with it, and have read some comments on the Rick company forum from 430 owners who have replaced the stock pickups (presumably putting on standard Rick hi-gains, although they didn't specify). This got me thinking whether there is any real structural difference between the 430 pickups and the regular hi-gains. My understanding is that the 430 has a different case and a somewhat different mounting arrangement, but it's not clear to me whether there are any differences in the magnets or the wiring. Does anyone know the answer?

Before I do anything rash like spend $150 on new high-gains I'm going to try replacing the foam pads in order to raise the pickup height a bit (as per Kira's post from a few months back). However, I'd be very interested in hearing from anyone who has replaced the pickups, and whether or not they were pleased with the results.

[kiramdear]

Hi, Johnathan, and welcome!

First, let me say that I don't know the specific difference between the special pickups of the 430 and the standard hi-gains, aside from the obvious visible construction. I never took an ohm reading. But I'm curious what you find lacking about the tone of your 430, as that may provide a clue as to how to proceed.

Just in review I'll re-post the pic I took of the underside of the hi-gain in mine:



The first thing I noticed is that the two brackets were originally installed between the foam and the body. When I re-foamed the pickups I moved the brackets' position to sit above the foam, thus gaining a bit of height within the cover. You might try this before investing in new pickups.

I have believed that the unique sound of the 430 was due more to the body wood and construction of the model, rather than the pickups. I could be wrong, of course, but the magnet and coil appear similar enough to a standard hi-gain while the cover and brackets were devised to cut cost of production.

Sorry for a very un-technical response. I'm just offering my impression and photo in hopes that they may be useful. I'd suggest you try the re-foam as a first measure as it costs next to nothing. If you're still unhappy we could proceed from there.

Here's another shot with the foam removed, showing the coil from the side and below:

[jdawe]

Thanks, Kira, both for the welcome and for the detailed response to my question.

It's hard to articulate exactly what I find lacking in terms of tone. I think it is mostly a sense I have that the neck pickup, which I used to think sounded pretty good years ago, has become a bit muddy and indistinct. This is all pretty subjective, since I can't really remember exactly how it used to sound, I'm running it through different amps from what I was using 10 years ago.

Anyway, I'm certainly going to try the re-foam first. I don't have any suitable replacement foam lying around, so as a first attempt I've tried simply turning the existing foam pads upside down, so that the pickup cases now rests on parts of the foam that hasn't been squeezed flat over the last 25 years. I think this has raised the pickup height slightly, and I'll see if that makes any difference to the tone when I get the electronics reassembled. (I'm making a new pickguard to replace a cracked one, and while I'm at it I am moving the input jack off the pickguard and running a barrel jack through the side of the body -- I've had problems with the pickguard breaking when I trip over my patch cord).

Interestingly, my brackets were already installed above the foam. My brackets had little holes on the edges that clip into matching pins on the plastic casing, so the brackets and the casing were connected together quite tightly, with the foam then stuck on underneath. It looks like yours may have been taken apart at some point and reassembled incorrectly.

[kiramdear]

Very interesting about the pin and hole connection and the different installation. Perhaps it's as you say, mine had been changed out and re-installed differently. I used an old mouse pad for the new foam, carefully trimmed, so the new pads cost me nothing. Some people have also used weatherstripping for replacement foam. Whichever way you choose to go with the first step, I'd like to hear how it turns out.

I think it would be a bit of a shame to replace the pickups if it's not absolutely necessary, as they are unique to this model and give it part of its identity. Mine sound great and I wouldn't dream of swapping them out as long as they still work. I wonder if you talk to people who have switched out whether they just like to tinker with things, you know? If a replacement was necessary, however, I would certainly look for some just like them, or failing that I would go with standard hi-gains.

[kiramdear]

Maybe a couple of other things to consider: Maybe your choice of strings has changed through the years? Be sure to make your evaluation with a new set of strings. Your amp is certainly also a factor.

But I noticed a boost in clarity and volume after the new pads had raised the height of the pickups.

Another thought is that Sergio, host of our "Winding Up With The Best" technical forum, does excellent repairs to RIC pickups as many of our members can attest. Magnets do get tired and lose their strength, and perhaps he could make a suitable replacement if necessary.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[jdawe]

A mouse pad would be perfect. The original foam seemed to be higher density than the various bits of old bike helmet foam I had lying around, but a mouse pad would be just the right weight and thickness. Thanks for the tip.

A question: after you installed your new pads, what was the spacing between your strings and the tops of the pickups?

I agree that it would be a shame to replace the stock pickups. I was prepared to do it if it turned out that the stock ones were a lot poorer quality than the standard hi-gains, but my guess is that the magnets and wiring are the same, and the only real difference is the casing.

[kiramdear]

Johnathan, I have the pickup height set as close to the strings as possible without them hitting. The sound is snappy and with chunky mids, I guess - it makes me feel like Keith Richard to play this guitar.

[egosheep]

Johnathan, I have the pickup height set as close to the strings as possible without them hitting. The sound is snappy and with chunky mids, I guess - it makes me feel like Keith Richard to play this guitar.

What happened with you cutting this guitar into another shape? Did you decide against it?

[kiramdear]

Yeah, I decided that in the end I think it's too nice a guitar to remodel. I don't have any plans to modify it after all.

[jdawe]

I followed your suggestion, Kira, and made new foam pads out of an old mouse pad, which raised the pickups by roughly a millimetre or two (higher on the bridge p/u, as I had to screw the neck p/u down tighter in order to avoid the strings touching the top of the pickup caes). I'm amazed at what a difference it makes. Before, the bridge pickup had sounded good but had been a lot quieter than the neck pickup. It still sounds good, but is noticeably louder than before, which makes it easier to balance with the neck pickup. The biggest improvement, though, is with sound of the neck p/u, which is now significantly brighter and less muddy. I just took it out for a test-drive, and was blown away by what a great-sounding guitar this is. It doesn't do everything, but it does some things very well. I no longer feel any need for new pickups. Thanks so much for your advice.

What got me thinking about the pickups in the first place was finally getting around to making a new pickguard to replace my old one, which had a crack in it. The old pickguard was itself a homemade replacement for the original, which broke some time in the mid-80s when I accidentally tripped on my patch cord, putting torque on the jack and shattering the pickguard. 20+ years later, my replacement cracked under similar circumstances, so I decided to replace the in-pickguard jack with a side-mounted barrel jack. While I was at it, I also copied your lead and installed an upper pickguard. I really like the look, but I had some difficulty cutting the concave curve on the side that goes beside the toggle switch. I was using clear plexiglass (later painted white on the back) and cutting with a hacksaw and coping saw. This worked fine for the convex parts but I had difficulty cutting the convex curve smoothly and ended up flattening it out in the middle. The end result looks a bit crude on a close examination, and I'm thinking of redoing it. Any tips for how to get a smoother curve (other than practice)?

[kiramdear]

Cool, Johnathan, it's great to hear that it worked out with the pads. It made a big difference for me, too. Those pickups are great, if you ask me.

As for the upper guard, I think I used a dremel tool with its cutting wheel to rough out the shape and refined it with the little barrel-shaped sanding bit, then finished by hand with fine sandpaper. Not the most efficient way to go, but it was what I had and it worked. If you have a coping saw or jeweler's saw with a fine blade, that can serve for the rough shaping, too. But I think I used my dremel for this job.

Well, great, then! Glad you came to the right place. Hey, we'd love to see a picture of your 430 for the record when you get it all sorted, if you can manage it.

[jdawe]

Thanks, Kira. I recut the curve using a plexiglass cutting knife and a cardboard template, and it worked much better the second time around.

I have to put a couple more coats of paint on the new and improved upper pickguard, but I'll post some pictures tonight or tomorrow once I have it back on the guitar.

[jps]

Careful, Kira, or you will be taking over for PW as the host of the Vibrola section!

[kiramdear]

Yeah, right, Jeff!

[jdawe]

I finally got the job finished. After learning by trial and error how to cut plexiglass properly with a scoring knife I completely re-did the upper pickguard, and also re-cut the curve on the bottom pickguard. They now look both much better than my initial attempt. Anyway, here are some pics. Apologies for the mediocre quality of the shots -- I had problems with flash reflection off the shiny plastic of the pickguards (clear Lexan, painted white on the bottom). I didn't think to take any pictures while I was replacing the foam pads under the pickups, and once the pickup covers are put back on the difference is very hard to see (although the improvement in the sound is striking).

Closer view

New pickguards and side-mounted barrel jack

Full view

Side view of new upper pickguard

Much thanks again to Kira for tipping me off about the foam pads, and for inspiring me to try the upper pickguard mod.

If any other 430 owners are interested in making a replacement lower pickguard and/or adding an upper pickguard, Pickguardian's template for the 620/660 turns out to be a perfect fit.