Stolen '64 Rickenbacker 1993 - #EB157 - Marty Wilson Piper

[sys700]

I was talking with Marty Wilson Piper of the Church when he passed through town on tour this past summer. He said to keep a lookout for a stolen 1964 Rose Morris 1993 - Serial Number EB157. It looks identical to serial number EB156 as shown on this site:

http://www.rickbeat.com/export1993/1993inventory.htm

I've been keeping an eye out because there are very few of these out there. I figured if someone would know, they'd be on this forum. Marty would really like to get it back. Here's a post from a recent email from the Church mailing list:

Stolen Guitar - In the late 80's, one of Marty Willson-Piper's prized Rickenbacker guitars was stolen from the New York Management office. The serial number of this guitar was EB157. This website below (that attempts to document all of the 1993 Rose Morris guitars) also has an EB156 shown -the next one to Marty's stolen guitar - showing exactly how it looked, with a little bit of wear and tear.
Keep an eye out for Marty's beautiful guitar and contact us if you have any information on it's whereabouts or ever come across it in your travels!

[gibsonlp]

Hi,

I added it to the register as a stolen guitar.

[jwilli]

So, this guitar was stolen 20 years ago? I hate that!

BTW, the serial denotes it as a '65 model.

[sys700]

Yeah, sorry, it's a 65, I misspoke.

[paologregorio]

It's the guitar Marty's standing with in the RIC poster he did, IIRC.

[wints]

It would be nice to see this one turn up.

As it went missing in the late 80's there's a good chance it might possibly have ended up in Japan, as was much of the vintage at that time.

The excuse that one didn't know what they had doesn't carry today, with all the net info out there, so I'm thinking this is under someone's bed and they know exactly what they have...

[casinoman]

so if that would be true, what would someone do if he found out today that a guitar he bought years ago had actually been stolen?

[xcoyle]

The person who had it stolen does have a right to it (not sure if there is S of L which would be state-by-state), but has to prove ownership and that it was stolen. So a police report or other evidence of when/where it was stolen, plus some proof they actually owned it. That is why registering with RIC or our Register is a good idea for ownership proof.

But on the other hand, some people do not like to Register old guitars for this reason, because they do not want to find out they innocently purchased a stolen guitar. Because the real owner gets his guitar back, and the thief has the money, and the current owner can only go after who they bought it from (which could be a long chain of innocent owners).

MWP case, he has photo's with the guitar, and it was most likely documented that it was stolen. So if he found it, the current owner would most likely be out of luck.

[FGM]

It's this one:

[paologregorio]

Marty seems to be quite happy with his RM 360/12, but he'd definitely love to have that guitar back. He has the serial number of that guitar memorized.

[westaussie]

The person who had it stolen does have a right to it (not sure if there is S of L which would be state-by-state), but has to prove ownership and that it was stolen. So a police report or other evidence of when/where it was stolen, plus some proof they actually owned it. That is why registering with RIC or our Register is a good idea for ownership proof.

But on the other hand, some people do not like to Register old guitars for this reason, because they do not want to find out they innocently purchased a stolen guitar. Because the real owner gets his guitar back, and the thief has the money, and the current owner can only go after who they bought it from (which could be a long chain of innocent owners).

MWP case, he has photo's with the guitar, and it was most likely documented that it was stolen. So if he found it, the current owner would most likely be out of luck.

It can be a difficult process recovering a guitar, even if you know who has it. (In this state, at least.)
My 1998 was stolen about 15 years ago. I was living in the Eastern Goldfields of Western Australia at the time. I was told by the police that I would have no chance of recovering it, as it was likely to have been "stolen to order" and immediately shipped out of the state or overseas.
Six months later, in a casual conversation with a dealer, he mentioned that he had just sold an amp to a lady and when he delivered it, she showed him her guitar, which her boyfriend had given her for her birthday. He said it looked just like the one I had stolen, but it was probably only a copy. I had a non-standard vib. arm fitted at the time.I asked him to take a second look on some pretext of testing the amp. He did and came back and said "its the same one".

Then the difficult part began. I had no record of the serial number and no way of positively identifying the guitar as being mine, apart from the non-standard vib. arm. The police said that wasn't enough and that they didn't have grounds to enter her house and do a search. They said that they couldn't go round searching peoples homes simply on the basis of an allegation. Fair enough.
What was I to do? I was sure it was my guitar, but how to recover it? (I even toyed with the idea of stealing back, but commonsense prevailed.)
I decided the only thing I could do was to keep hassling the police about its recovery. I was in the police station one day doing my hassling routine and the desk sergeant was getting hot under the collar and warning me that I could be charged with creating a public nuisance, when a young detective walked past and overheard the word Rickenbacker. He happened to be a guitar enthusiast and listened to my story, but basicly told me there was little they could legally do without substantial grounds to enter the house. He asked if I knew the lady's name and when I told him he said "good news, she's known to us and we're about to arrest her boyfriend for drug dealing and fencing stolen goods." That was enough for them to get a search warrant and they found the guitar, but proof of ownership was still problem. Then one of then turned over one of the effects boxes I had in the guitar case and there was my name inscribed on the bottom.
That was enough for them and I got it back.

Pure chance and blind luck led me to get it back.At the same time it also taught me a sharp lesson about properly identifying and documenting valuable items.

Vic

[bubbasweet]

Here's my story. Rick12 stolen from a club in 1994. Filed Police report with Serial Number in it.. 13 years later I see it on Ebay seller is in my city.. In bold print my serial number. I go,, THAT's MY GUITAR!!!!... Call the Police. Nothing they can do they say. Not our district. After being bounced back and forth I finally finding someone who will listen at the Anti Fencing unit. They say what is the sellers name? I said xyz pawnshop. They said we know them, we will get your guitar this afternoon. So I faxed in the Police report that I still had. I get a call, we got your guitar, you have proven to our satisfaction that it is yours beyond a doubt... but the guy did some work to it since with a luthier and he wants to be re-embursed for it and then he (pawnshop owner) filed some legal document an injunction or somthing to the effect that he (the Pawn shop owner) sold it to himself and now has a receipt and is also the owner.

Long and the short of it. Even though I originally owned it there is a law called "conversion". You should read it. It is very complex and has to do with someone obtaining ownership legally of your stolen items. We went to court 3 times and finally the judge was blabbing on about how he would need THOUSANDS of dollars and layers etc to actually decide who it LEGALLY belonged to now. We both just said f*ck it, and sold it on Ebay and agreed to split the proceeds.

I am telling you that is the most frustrating experience I have ever had...

[westaussie]

I am telling you that is the most frustrating experience I have ever had...

I sympathise with you. It is galling enough to have someone steal what is rightfully yours, but it's adding insult to injury when the law says that someone else now has a right of ownership to the stolen article and the onus is on you to disprove that.

I could well have been in the same position as you, except that there were other unrelated circumstances which enabled the police to "suggest" that the person who had possession of my guitar would be better off to give it up quietly.
Failing that I would have been in exactly the same position as you.

Vic

[bubbasweet]

As soon as someone buys your stolen guitar legitimatly meaning, they do not know it was hot and also have a receipt from a store or other Plus if it is sold and purchaced several times since your pretty much hooped. I learned from this, just get insurance, that is what it's for.

Unless like you say,, there are some specific circumstances.