Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Anyone else notice the rosewood coloring of the recently shipped guitars, I know its getting harder to find, and can vary drastically, I have seen quite a few like my Dec, 09 620/12, with light wood with dark graining, I don't mind it, but it is quite a bit different than the older models such as the 3 yr old 360 also seen

I just got a new one, the fretboard is much more pale with not much grain, and some white speckles, whereas the older ones are more dramatic and colorful. I never even noticed the fretboard before, until I saw the difference with this new one. Still great, still a beauty ...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the fretboards are Bubinga, not Rosewood.

collin wrote:Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the fretboards are Bubinga, not Rosewood.

You're right, but Bubinga is also called African Rosewood...

Only a couple models are "spec"ed as bubinga, most are "spec"ed as rosewood, which could mean any variety of rosewood types

http://www.mangore.com/rosewood_names.html

Theoretically true; however, Rickenbacker fretboards (at least since about 1962) have been of one of the types of bubinga generally known as "African Rosewood".

The only way to be specific about which variety of "African Rosewood" bubinga is actually being used, is to use the Linnaean taxonomy, which is a two-part name uses a genus name and a specifier, in either Latin or Greek.

Although there are 13 species of "bubinga", only 5 are commonly known as "African Rosewood". My guess for which one RIC has been using is Guibourtia demeusei.

Variations in the wood you're seeing have to do with regional differences and different suppliers, in addition to the usual variations that happen from tree to tree or forest to forest.

Can someone enlighten me on what African rosewoods are protected by the Lacey Act? I understand one is Madagascar rosewood. Is there going to come a time when all rosewood will disappear from guitars?

My former '68 4000 looked way different than recent fretboards.

The Lacey Act/Madagascar issue is a complicated one; I would refer those interested, to this explanation:

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/ ... Primer.pdf

The above is the best information on the Act and its implementation. Note the emphasis on Linnaean names! They're the best way to distinguish one species from another.

Below is lookup information for various species:

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/ ... tion.shtml

Below are some dense and boring papers with more detail:

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/ ... -may08.pdf

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/ ... ceyAct.pdf

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/ ... 3-2009.pdf

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/ ... onPlan.pdf

This page will tell you more about details on the recent extension to the 100-year-old Lacey Act (originally intended for wild fauna and flora protection; now amended to include illegal trafficking in wood species, too, with some exceptions):

http://www.eia-global.org/lacey/P6.EIA.LaceyReport.pdf

The Lacey Act puts the resources of the US Government behind the regulation of importation of illegal species; it's in addition to the CITES Treaty (which is worldwide in scope) and independent from it.

The Madagascar Rosewood issue, which bit Gibson in the nether regions, also involves Madagascar ebony. There was at least some attempt to control the exportation of both these woods under Madagascar's former President, Marc Ravalomanana, who was overthrown in a military coup in March, 2009. The enforcement vacuum which followed, saw armed poachers invading plantations and attempting to export--sometimes successfully--logs of the indigenous rosewood and ebony species through brokers in the French protectorates of Mauritius and Reunion. These logs were exported to China, France, and Germany. It was a shipment of rosewood which passed through Germany that got Gibson into hot water. The penalties can be large, but for now the shipment has been confiscated.

Meanwhile, Madagascar's interim President, Andry Rajoelina, has stepped up and arrested 13 of the poachers/exporters in an attempt to stanch the illegal export trade.

The issue of trade in protected woods and other materials (including ivory) is complex and affects all of us whether we know it or not, because vintage instruments must theoretically be certified and permitted before they are allowed to move between countries. For instance, if you're traveling with your '60s Martin D-28, it has two CITES Appendix I (regulated) materials used in its construction: Brazilian Rosewood and African Ivory. Uh oh.

Stay tuned.

Just for the record Brian i think your 620/12 neck looks great much better than your 360.

jingle_jangle wrote:The Lacey Act/Madagascar issue is a complicated one; I would refer those interested, to this explanation:



The Lacey Act puts the resources of the US Government behind the regulation of importation of illegal species; it's in addition to the CITES Treaty (which is worldwide in scope) and independent from it.

The Madagascar Rosewood issue, which bit Gibson in the nether regions, also involves Madagascar ebony. There was at least some attempt to control the exportation of both these woods under Madagascar's former President, Marc Ravalomanana, who was overthrown in a military coup in March, 2009. The enforcement vacuum which followed, saw armed poachers invading plantations and attempting to export--sometimes successfully--logs of the indigenous rosewood and ebony species through brokers in the French protectorates of Mauritius and Reunion. These logs were exported to China, France, and Germany. It was a shipment of rosewood which passed through Germany that got Gibson into hot water. The penalties can be large, but for now the shipment has been confiscated.

Meanwhile, Madagascar's interim President, Andry Rajoelina, has stepped up and arrested 13 of the poachers/exporters in an attempt to stanch the illegal export trade.

The issue of trade in protected woods and other materials (including ivory) is complex and affects all of us whether we know it or not, because vintage instruments must theoretically be certified and permitted before they are allowed to move between countries. For instance, if you're traveling with your '60s Martin D-28, it has two CITES Appendix I (regulated) materials used in its construction: Brazilian Rosewood and African Ivory. Uh oh.

Stay tuned.

Thanks, Paul. It's all pretty convoluted. I couldn't quite get the Gibson issue until finding out they had imported the Madagascar material through illegal means. At the same time I'm trying to figure out how Martin is using Madagascar rosewood on certain models.
It spins the head. But since it's a Federal law it explains the confusion.

Like you said, stay tuned. A lot of material used for guitars, primarily fretboards and acoustic bridges, may be in jeopardy in the future.

scotty wrote:Just for the record Brian i think your 620/12 neck looks great much better than your 360.

Thanks, Oh yeah, I really like it, no problem there, It 's just is a different look than I'm used to on other Ricks, and also I was wondering if it is more typical of the recent batches

Brian, when I order boards from LMI, they vary a great deal within each type of wood. They tend to look more like your 620 than a normal RIC board.

Paul, RIC boards have always seemed very consistent in grain and color, and have their own look to them. Do they have someone who hand picks the boards, or a buyer who does this for them?

xcoyle wrote:Brian, when I order boards from LMI, they vary a great deal within each type of wood. They tend to look more like your 620 than a normal RIC board.

Paul, RIC boards have always seemed very consistent in grain and color, and have their own look to them. Do they have someone who hand picks the boards, or a buyer who does this for them?

Dave, I couldn't answer this question conclusively, but I can say that they have close relationship with their hardwood vendors which shows in the nice wood we see.

BTW, figured bubinga is pricey! About $12/bd ft depending on vendor, timing, quantity.

I recently purchased a 6 foot long by 1 foot wide (6 bd ft) plank of highly figured bubinga for fretboards. The price? Over $200.00, or about $35.00/bd ft. But this stuff's got curl from end to end...

Paul, it sounds nice. How thick is the board?