Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

First let me say I'm not much of a tech-head, but I've been playing bass and Ricks since 1977 and know what good tone is,...My R/B band had a gig this past Saturday,..My wife Mindy attending, (the first show since I aquired my fireglow 4003),..I'm feeling really good about myself, I've got the growl, the DB pounding against my pantleg, and thinking, man this Rick is the bomb,...We take a break after the first set, I ask my wife how it sounds, and she says, you have no low end, and no definition. " If I walked in and didnt know any better, I'd never know you were playing a Rick...This being said, let me tell you all a little bit about my wife,...She's beem with me ever since I started playing and has grown with me as a player, and knows what good bass tone is, and most important of all, knows what good Rickenbacker tone is,and knows what I want to sound like....With that being said, I'd value her opinon over most anyone,..... Bummed, I talked to the soundman and he said he was having a little problem with the low end, but it didnt sound to bad ,.Frustrated, I started the second set with my hybrid Jazz bass, didnt touch my amp, my wife immediatley gives me the thumbs up. Later, after the second set she says It was like the bass player just plugged in... I had'nt changed a thing on my amp, just changed basses. Later I talked to the soundman and he says he didnt change anything, but has noticed the lack of bottom on my Ricks VS. my other basses. Whats up with this ? Is there a simple fix?....My bandmates even say I have low end out the **s onstage with my Ricks.

Given that you and your band mates hear big low end from your Rick, I'm sorry to say the problem is probably on the soundman side. That's a fact any 400x Rickenbacker has less massive low-end than, say, a Fender P. But like you, I started playing Rickenbacker basses in 1977 and never experienced lack of low end with them.

I believe there's nothing to fix on your Rick, but maybe there's a soundman to be replaced... (sorry).

Cheers,
JL

I have noticed that some systems, and / or bass amps do not reproduce the low end of a Rick very well. Those usually being the amps that are so well made.
I think this is why alot of bassists (Fender lovers) claim that Ricks have no low end.
Where you miked or had you gone direct or both ?
If you went direct, how where you connected to the PA, was it with one of those standard DI boxes?
If you where just miked, maybe the mic couldn't reproduce the low end of the Rick ?
Maybe you have too much low end with your Rick ?
This is main reason why I love my SansAmp BDDI, it makes sure I get a great tone to the PA

By the way I play through a Carvin R1000 with an Ampeg BSE410HLF, no effects and my signal goes direct, after the preamp section.

Scott, I think you should have your cab miked too. Keep the D.I., and add a miked signal from the cab. Then have both signals mixed on the board.

Joey's advice on SABDDI should be considered too. That's a useful box !

Cheers,
JL

Jean, I agree with you that the sound man is most probably at fault here since Scotts wife never gave him a thumbs down on the sound of his Rick before...though I disagree with you about F*nd*r basses having more low end than a Rick, at least that is my experience, again I believe the difference is largely due to the amp that is used.
With my SWR rig and also with a Yamaha bass amp I used to have, I get tons of low end from my Ricks that I don't get from any of my other basses.

Scott, like your wife, mine has also learned alot about basses, and can tell the difference in the sound of my basses, and good tone or lousy. She even helps me set up and break down at shows. If she was strong enough to carry my amp for me, I'd really have it made ! LOL
From my experience, ever since I have my SansAmp BDDI it's always been thumbs up. She gestures to me while I'm playing.

If you have good low end on stage, tell you soundman that his mixer has an EQ section for a reason and that he should learn how to use it!

This sounds like the old story about recording engineers that shudder when the bassist brings anything but a Fender to a session. They learned how to record a J bass and P bass when that's all there was, and forgot after that how to use their EQ to make anything else sound good.

Whatever amp or box I use them with, my P-Bass always sounds deeper, lower than the 4003. But I must acknowledge my P is a big boomy killer, so maybe my opinion is a bit biased. Never been a big F*nd*r addict anyway. Just have one because a few months ago I was playing in a Stax/Motown cover band.

Cheers,
JL

You're right, Jeffrey ! I remember 20+ years ago, I was recording in a studio with my hard rock band. I had my 4001 + Marshall all-tube head + Sunn 215 cab. My tone was Squire-ish. And the sound guy said "too bad there's no real bass tone here". The whole band replied that was OUR tone, and that we liked it THAT way.

Cheers,
JL

Let me elaborate on my experience as far as bass tech. I started playing in '77 and was in a few garage bands, fell in love with YES and RUSH and the overall Rick tone. Basically quit playing "OUT" around '90 to raise a family and do the right thing..???? Never quit playing entirely, and rejoined the band I helped start in '02. So I have this 10-12 year gap in "how to get a good live sound" tech. So I appreciate all your help....Bottom line, I have Fenders, Warwicks, Carvins,a Peavey, and a Musicman.........But all I want to play is my Rickenbackers, and they need to sound good out front.

Jps, I agree with you about recording enginners. I'm not completely thrilled with the sound of my Ricks on the cd my band just did..then again he didn't listen to me much about the sound I wanted. It sounds more like he tried to make my Ricks sound like a Fender. If I wanted Fender sound, I would have recorded with one !!!

Scott, if you do have low end on stage and don't have enough on the front, then obviously the soundman did not make the appropriate choice to amplify your sound.

As I stated before, you should ask (and even DEMAND) to have you preamp D.I.'d +++AND+++ your cab miked. This helps pretty much getting good response in all frequency ranges, and having clear attack at the same time.

Cheers,
JL

Thanks Jean, makes alot of sense to me. I will try this next gig. Also how does the Sansamp BDDI work ?

There are several ways to use an SABDDI. You can use it as a preamp, as a D.I. box, or both simultaneously.

My setup is the following :
Rick > SABDDI
Dry sound > D.I.'d to the board
Wet sound > Ampeg amp (B-100R)
The Ampeg cab is miked, generally with a Sennheiser e609.

All EQ's are flat on my Ampeg, the tone controls I use are those of the SABDDI. Most specifically, the SABDDI gives me some slight tubey-like drive I can't get from the B-100R as standalone (it's a solid state amp).
Most of my front signal is from the miked cab. It gives headroom, lowend, etc.
I just ask a small touch of DI'd signal to be added, so that the attack is clearer.

This works for me that way, either I mimic PMC in my Beatles tribute band or I play Squire-Geddy-like basslines in my progressive rock band.

Cheers,
JL

Cool, this sounds like it would work for me. Thank you for your input.