Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I recently picked up one of these, and I'm toying with some ideas to zero in on the tone I'm looking for. It's an 11-string fretless guitar (a single low E and five courses of unison strings), strung with nylon strings. It has an ebony fingerboard and a Baggs under-saddle ribbon transducer. I find that the PU is a bit "piezo-ey" for my tastes, and it is especially noticeable on the low E, A/A and D/D strings. The open notes ring nice, but the fretted notes seem to lose some impact, and the growl I get isn't quite what I'm looking for. Since I don't have a proper acoustic amp, that's one thing I'm lacking. Another would be an inline EQ such as the Radial Tonebone PZ-PRE.

But, prior to making these decisions, I'm wondering if replacing the nylon strings with something like light guitar jazz flats (TI, for example) would work with the piezo PU. I know I would loose some growl, but I would also gain some zing in the higher courses. An added benefit would be that it would increase the pressure required to play it. Right now, I can look at a string and stop the note. As an upright bass player, I need something that fights back a bit more. The truss rod is adjustable on the glissentar, and the neck is quite substantial.

So:

1. Would metal strings (flats for electric jazz guitar, say) work OK with the transducer?
2. If I don't go to metal strings to "fix" my tone issues, what amps are recommended? JPS recommended a Henriksen; Godin recommends SR Technology. Both runa bout $1,000. Is the Fender Acoustasonic a nice compromise?
3. Any thoughts on the Tonebone PZ-PRE? At $300, it's a fairly pricey pedal.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks

FretlessOnly wrote:I recently picked up one of these, and I'm toying with some ideas to zero in on the tone I'm looking for. It's an 11-string fretless guitar (a single low E and five courses of unison strings), strung with nylon strings. It has an ebony fingerboard and a Baggs under-saddle ribbon transducer. I find that the PU is a bit "piezo-ey" for my tastes, and it is especially noticeable on the low E, A/A and D/D strings. The open notes ring nice, but the fretted notes seem to lose some impact, and the growl I get isn't quite what I'm looking for. Since I don't have a proper acoustic amp, that's one thing I'm lacking. Another would be an inline EQ such as the Radial Tonebone PZ-PRE.

But, prior to making these decisions, I'm wondering if replacing the nylon strings with something like light guitar jazz flats (TI, for example) would work with the piezo PU. I know I would loose some growl, but I would also gain some zing in the higher courses. An added benefit would be that it would increase the pressure required to play it. Right now, I can look at a string and stop the note. As an upright bass player, I need something that fights back a bit more. The truss rod is adjustable on the glissentar, and the neck is quite substantial.

So:

1. Would metal strings (flats for electric jazz guitar, say) work OK with the transducer?
2. If I don't go to metal strings to "fix" my tone issues, what amps are recommended? JPS recommended a Henriksen; Godin recommends SR Technology. Both runa bout $1,000. Is the Fender Acoustasonic a nice compromise?
3. Any thoughts on the Tonebone PZ-PRE? At $300, it's a fairly pricey pedal.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks

The metal strings will work fine. Try that first, and then try to dial in the EQ. Can't recommend any amp in particular.

Anyone else?

Thanks Paul. I might try two sets of TI JS110's, but I really have no idea how the tension will work out. Changing to the metal strings may allow me to use my Fender Stage 185 with better results. Or maybe not.

Another question: is the need for an amp designed for an acoustic mainly the function of the piezo pickup and the inherent feedback problems acoustic amplification brings? Or, would use of the metal strings allow for better application of a more standard electric guitar amp such as a Fender solid state Stage 185?

Thanks again for any help.

The radial tonebone is a fantastic preamp (although costly) and also worth checking out.....

Eden.

Acoustic amps are more full range, like a PA or keyboard amp, where as electric guitar amps are voiced "nasally" in the the midrange department. Start off with the mids all the way down on your Fender 185 and the other eq flat, then go from there. The steel strings should improve the sound through your amp. You may also want to look in to another pickup system as well, just to see what's available. A good amount of systems now incorporate both piezo and microphone hardware, worth checking out.
Radial makes outstanding stuff, but it may or may not suit your needs. Be sure to get one from a place you can return it to if it is not to your liking. Keep us posted and throw up a demo and pics if you end up getting it, love to hear it!

whojamfan wrote:You may also want to look in to another pickup system as well, just to see what's available.

Not so easy to retrofit to such an instrument as the Godin.

No, a retro-fit PU probably wouldn't work here, at least easily. To his credit, the seller did indicate that a contact mic to supplement the piezo would make a big difference. That and the Tonebone PZ-PRE.

Mike, I'll give the mid-cut a try - thing is, acoustic instruments find their breath in the mid-range, so that seems a bit counter-intuitive to me. All in all, I've got a fair bit to juggle:

Intended nylon strings vs. a metal set

PZ-PRE or not?

Acoustic amp or live with what I have?

Add a contact mic?

Good thing I got a deal on the Glissentar, 'cause I'll need >$1,000 to compile that lot.

Here are a couple of shots:

FretlessOnly wrote:Mike, I'll give the mid-cut a try - thing is, acoustic instruments find their breath in the mid-range, so that seems a bit counter-intuitive to me. All in all, I've got a fair bit to juggle:

In a full range amplifier, sure, but guitar amps are voiced so midrange prominant that backing the mids all the way off usually only sets them at what would be considered "flat" on a keyboard or pa type amplifier.
Seeing that GK rig in the background, I'm thinking you may have better luck playing through that than the 185 if you are going for a full, rich clean sound. You could run an eq(the new MXR 10 band graphic pedal would be perfect!)through the loop and be able to just click in and out depending which instrument you are playing.
This could save you from not not having to lug around another amp, or compromise clarity. Guitar amps generally just wanna distort-especially newer solid state ones. Even set clean, the solid state amps from about the mid 80s up wanna break up as you hit the strings harder, to supposedly emulate "tube amp touch sensitivity." This is obviously a problem for running an acoustic instrument that will have signifigant changes in attack, sustain, and percussive elements. This can be a major booger if you are a very"particular" person about your sound.
Try to leave the on board eq as flat as possible untill the last fine tuning of the the sound. Boosting freqs on the instruments eq can open the possibility of feedback squeal, distortion, and coloration of the natural sound of the instrument.
Just as an afterthought, I bet that would sound perfect through a Peavey Nashville 400 pedal steel guitar combo. That big 15 inch speaker and super clean, (headroom for days), preamp and power amp sections would certainly give you an accurate amplification without said coloration. I'm sure you could pick one up for dirt cheap used. I guess the same would sort of apply to a keyboard amp, as long as you had well over 100 watts and a 15 inch speaker.
Just a few thoughts anyways-good luck