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My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:47 am
by cassius987
About a year ago I ordered a Classic 4 Band preamp from Audere, configured Volume/Tone + Volume/Tone + Bass/Lo-Mid + Hi-Mid/Treble. I installed it in my 4003, but it was very cramped under there with the original Switchcraft switch in place, and eventually I took it out and restored the original wiring because I didn't like the seeing the pickguard bulge. However, I was really happy with the results of installing the preamp, because it gave me a very nice tone that felt "right" with the bass but just gave me some more onboard flexibility. In fact, the night I debuted the 4003 with this preamp at a jazz gig, I got asked by a guy in the crowd to join his cover band! It was a well-paying gig that quickly took care of the cost of the Audere pre.

It's been a long time and I've since moved to Denver. Finally though, I got around to reconfiguring how I can run this preamp with a 4003--but this time around it's going to go with my 4003FL. The 4003FL has become so much of a "go to" bass for me that it doesn't make sense to install this in anything else, especially since the guys in my band have (without my help) chosen the 4003FL for their pick of my basses to use in the project.

Instead of using the original Switchcraft switch, I will now use a 3PDT On/On switch by C&K (similar to what a 4004 uses) to toggle between the preamp's mono output and a passive stereo output of the two pickups without any controls in the signal path. This way I can utilize the second jack effectively and in a novel way instead of wasting it, as I felt I was doing before. In addition it frees up a lot of room "under the hood" for the preamp module, because the C&K switch is markedly smaller than the Switchcraft switch.

Here's the basic signal path: the pickups go to the 3PDT switch, with their commons on the same lug and their hots on separate lugs. The three lugs on one side go to the preamp's 3 corresponding wires, and the three on the other side go to the stereo jack for passive output in a Ric-O-Sound fashion.

Tonight I removed the original pickguard and harness and did some shielding in preparation for installing the preamp tomorrow. I also went ahead and put some of the hardware in the pickguard. Photodocumentation below:

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In the operating room... (We just moved in and ripped up the linoleum from the terra cotta beneath it in the kitchen, so you can see we still have glue to remove and a door to paint, etc. etc... don't tell my wife I let you see it!)


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The pickguard and harness have been removed along with the neck pickup.


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For reference, this is the original harness made by Rickenbacker. It's no slouch to say the least!


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The cavity for the pots and module has been shielded, and I have soldered the mechanical ground wire to the copper shielding with rosin core solder. It has been taped over with electrical tape to keep the wire securely in place, flush to the bottom surface.


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The bass is going to bed for the night. The neck pickup cavity is not totally shielded because I found making the proper copper shield "box" too difficult with the exposed truss rods. Besides, the 4002 pickup I use in that position is already covered with metal so it's not as if shielding this compartment was truly necessary--just something I did while I had the tape out.


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Here's the new pickguard, shielded with the 4002 pickup installed and the 3PDT switch. The electrical tape on the back of the pickguard holds the series connected wires of the low-Z coils and the mid-Z coils on the back of the pickup so they don't flop around when installing the pickguard. (This is actually a 4002 bridge pickup, bought direct from RIC by Scott Pope and more recently sold to me. Therefore I have joined the 800 ohm coils that go to the XLR and the "standard" coils for a total of just over 8 kΩ. This pickup has a great, unmatched sound--I look forward to hearing it through the preamp.)


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The pickguard from above with pickup and switch installed. It won't look radically different from stock when all is said and done.


More to come...

P.S.: Thank you to the forum members who helped me track down the right C&K switch for my needs. Much appreciated. :)

Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:39 pm
by cassius987
No one appears to interested, but just to update, the installation went well and all is working other than the 4002 pickup through the Audere (works fine passively). Apparently something in its design is preventing it from "talking" to the Audere properly, related to impedance buffering most likely. The preamp may not be staying, as much as I like how the HB-1 is sounding through it, because I live for the sound of that 4002 pickup. Oh well--a worthy experiment and I got to shield my bass.

/thread

Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:44 am
by hieronymous
You could run each pickup wired totally separately through each output - the 4002 pickup passive and the other active through the Audere, then combine them after the fact with something like an Alembic F-2B preamp. Well, that's what I would do anyway! :mrgreen:

That's too bad the 4002 pickup isn't playing nice with the preamp...

Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:41 am
by ajish4
Very cool Joshua!

4002 pups should bring some more attention....I'd love to hear how she sounds. That's a GREAT SNAG!


When you get around to recording a sample, I'd love to hear it!

I had a plan a while ago to install Alembic Pickups & Electronics into my '08 4003FL AFG but traded it for a 92 4003FL. I love the way it sounds so I'm keeping an eye out for a cheap FL project.

Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:27 am
by cassius987
Actually Tony, here's a clip of the 4002 pickup passively that I did a while back:

Click on "Pseudo-upright jam with Miles": http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... dID=816857

Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:15 am
by ajish4
cassius987 wrote:Actually Tony, here's a clip of the 4002 pickup passively that I did a while back:

Click on "Pseudo-upright jam with Miles": http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... dID=816857
Wow,,,,BEAUTIFUL TONE JOSHUA!

Plenty of classic fretless tone there!

You did well, you have to be the only one forumite with a FL 4002 other than Ginger who has the COMPLETE 4002 FL! 8)

Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:28 pm
by rickenbrother
Joshua wrote:We just moved in and ripped up the linoleum from the terra cotta beneath it in the kitchen, so you can see we still have glue to remove and a door to paint, etc. etc... don't tell my wife I let you see it!)
Oops sorry, I wasn't supposed to tell her? :lol:
Good stuff, Joshua!
Looking forward to getting home and hearing the "Pseudo-upright jam with Miles" on good speakers or headphones later!

Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:46 pm
by cjj
cassius987 wrote:No one appears to interested...
Oh, there's interest, some of us have just been a tad busy...
Interesting stuff there, I like the sound of that 4002 pickup, now I'm wanting to go out and get a few of them (if only...).

Too bad it doesn't seem to work with the preamp, it's hard to imagine why it wouldn't, but knowing nothing about the preamp circuit, it's just guessing as to why. With some fairly simple test equipment (oscilloscope, signal generator) it should be relatively easy to figure out what's going on though.

Nice job on the photos (man that bass looks familiar!) and shielding. Did the shielding really accomplish much?

Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:30 pm
by cassius987
cjj wrote:Did the shielding really accomplish much?
It's difficult to say, I did it mainly because David Meadows really emphasizes doing it with the Audere preamp. I wouldn't have bothered with my other basses but noticed some very minor, infrequent noise problems with this bass before (just kind of a "Tesla coil" sound once in a Blue Moon). Last night going both passively and actively there was absolutely no noise of any sort, so I suppose I could declare "Victory!" but I feel it might be premature.

The reason I think the 4002 pickup doesn't work properly with the preamp: first, David Meadows analyzed my Ric pickups before (not the 4002 pup though) and said the chrome shielding on them already makes them unkind to his impedance buffering system (inflexible with it) which meant I couldn't use the Z Switch for any practical reason unless I went back to Hi-Gains and then only the bridge pickup would work with it. So I went to the "Classic 4 Band" preamp which is the same as before but without the Z Switch. Secondly, with the 4002 pickup's odd P Bass x P Bass coil interleafing (this only pertains to the bridge pickup which has four coils), the signal isn't coming through unless I apply a really strong voltage which tells me it's not shorted, it's just bad at talking to the impedance buffering stage of the Audere preamp. With any other preamp this likely wouldn't be an issue, but the Audere preamp is really the only one I like very much because of the impedance buffering! Oh well. There's the possibility that if I only used the "normal" coils and disconnected the "XLR" coils it would work, but I'm not willing to mess with that very much since it's a rare pickup.

Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:17 pm
by cassius987
Well, I'm leaving it as it is for the time being until I get some 0.022 uF caps from Bass Parts Resource. There were no good 0.022s at Radio Shack and I want to replace the stock 0.047s in my passive harness; in the mean time I can take the bass like this to rehearsal.

Interestingly the "no load" HB-1 and the full volume/full tone but no EQ HB-1 through the Audere sound really similar. Basically they're both a tad more hi-fi than normal. But I can't accept not being able to use the 4002 pickup so this is only a temporary phase... I will probably lift the guard out intact and put it in a different bass. Here are pics of the finished job:

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Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:18 am
by T.A.R.
Joshua, I really enjoyed listening to your samples absolutely beautiful! What an experiment :D

Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:45 am
by cassius987
I posted a new pair of clips titled "4002pickup-versus-HB1pickup" at my SoundClick page. Check it out--it's basically analyzing each pickup passively direct to jack to the same riff. So it's intended to compare the tones.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... dID=816857

Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:44 pm
by cassius987
Anyone hear the clips yet? I was hoping for some feedback in the HB1 v 4002 pickup way.

Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:02 pm
by sloop_john_b
I'm really surprised at how similar they sound, considering the positions and not even so much the pickups themselves. Just a touch more clarity on the HB. They're great sounding pickups, I would love to get a pair for my v68 bass someday (not to mention my 330!).

Re: My 4003FL is getting some extra oomph.

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:20 pm
by cassius987
Thanks for the feedback John!! I have farmed those clips out to some friends and most people are saying they think the 4002 pickup has more clarity and is their favorite, but I am impressed that we have someone on the other side of the fence too! It feels weird when polls go so one-sided... Thanks for your input! :) I too happen to think they sound more alike than I would have guessed with all of the inherent differences like placement and series resistance of the coils.