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Zero Fret
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:18 pm
by Casiraghi22
Can the "Zero fret" be removed from a 4001c64s?
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:33 pm
by FretlessOnly
Here's my take:
Sure, it can be removed, but then the nut will have to be repositioned to replace the zero fret, which requires delicate wood removal and aesthetic clean-up of the area where the nut was. Depending on the structure of the nut that goes on a zero fret bass, you may need a replacement nut also.
The zero fret establishes string length, which is what a nut normally does on a bass without a zero fret. So once you remove the zero fret, your intonation is all out of whack if the nut remains where it is. Also, your strings may buzz against the frets or board since the nut, in this case, is more of a string guide.
I'm sure others here who have more experience can chime in on the bottom line logistics. But it seems to me that you'd incur not an insignifcant expense to reduce the value of your bass.
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:37 pm
by Casiraghi22
FretlessOnly wrote:Here's my take:
Sure, it can be removed, but then the nut will have to be repositioned to replace the zero fret, which requires delicate wood removal and aesthetic clean-up of the area where the nut was. Depending on the structure of the nut that goes on a zero fret bass, you may need a replacement nut also.
The zero fret establishes string length, which is what a nut normally does on a bass without a zero fret. So once you remove the zero fret, your intonation is all out of whack if the nut remains where it is. Also, your strings will likey buzz against the frets or board since the nut, in this case, is more of a string guide.
I'm sure others here who have more experience can chime in on the bottom line logistics. But it seems to me that you'd incur not an insignifcant expense to reduce the value of your bass.
would it cost alot? can I take it to a luither?
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:39 pm
by cjj
All I can say is, "Why?"
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:43 pm
by Casiraghi22
cjj wrote:All I can say is, "Why?"
I kinda dont like the Zero fret. What does the zero fret benefit me of? I can't even slap the Rick! its not like the 4003.
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:56 pm
by cassius987
I'm not sure how a zero fret impacts slapping.
Bass with zero fret = nut is cut to match fret; open notes sound a bit more like fretted. There's no way to screw up the nut with a zero fret.
Bass without zero fret = nut is cut (ideally!) exactly the same; open notes are a bit cleaner. Even though the nut should be cut the same it is possible to cut too shallow or too deep, which in extreme cases has ramifications in how the instrument plays. Most "mass produced" nuts shipped on guitars without zero frets won't be perfect and will need a luthier's help to get cut to perfection.
Really, those're the only differences. May as well keep it... I bet modding it will nuke the value for most of the near future.
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:08 pm
by Casiraghi22
cassius987 wrote:I'm not sure how a zero fret impacts slapping.
Bass with zero fret = nut is cut to match fret; open notes sound a bit more like fretted. There's no way to screw up the nut with a zero fret.
Bass without zero fret = nut is cut (ideally!) exactly the same; open notes are a bit cleaner. Even though the nut should be cut the same it is possible to cut too shallow or too deep, which in extreme cases has ramifications in how the instrument plays. Most "mass produced" nuts shipped on guitars without zero frets won't be perfect and will need a luthier's help to get cut to perfection.
Really, those're the only differences. May as well keep it... I bet modding it will nuke the value for most of the near future.
So zero fret is good'?
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:16 pm
by RicOSoundMan
trade it to me I have a 76 4001 jetglo that doesn't have the zero fret.... problem solved
just kidding, I personally wouldn't change it because i wouldn't want to mess up the originallity of the beautifal piece of Rickenbacker that it truely is.
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:34 pm
by johnallg
Casiraghi22 wrote:cassius987 wrote:I'm not sure how a zero fret impacts slapping.
Bass with zero fret = nut is cut to match fret; open notes sound a bit more like fretted. There's no way to screw up the nut with a zero fret.
Bass without zero fret = nut is cut (ideally!) exactly the same; open notes are a bit cleaner. Even though the nut should be cut the same it is possible to cut too shallow or too deep, which in extreme cases has ramifications in how the instrument plays. Most "mass produced" nuts shipped on guitars without zero frets won't be perfect and will need a luthier's help to get cut to perfection.
Really, those're the only differences. May as well keep it... I bet modding it will nuke the value for most of the near future.
So zero fret is good'?
It allows your open string notes to sound like the fretted. Evenness of tone. If your trouble slapping is fret noise, raise the action a little at the bridge and see if that makes it more how you like.
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:35 am
by scott_s
Zero frets are great, but guitarists tend to think they're weird. So manufacturers generally don't use them, which leads people to think they're weird...
- Scott
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:39 am
by rickaddict
cjj wrote:All I can say is, "Why?"
+1
I have a 4001C64S, and a whole lot more Rick basses as well to compare. My C64S is one of my favorites. What a great sounding bass! Open notes should sound more like fretted notes with a zero fret, but the difference is not huge IMO. Set up is a snap with a zero fret. The action down by the nut can't get any better.
I'm not a slapper, but I don't see how converting a C64S to a regular nut would improve slap-ability.
Bottom line: Big expense, big headache, big chance for a "luthier" botch job, and the result will be little more than a substantial loss in the value of your instrument.
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:44 am
by teeder
rickaddict wrote:cjj wrote:All I can say is, "Why?"
+1
I have a 4001C64S, and a whole lot more Rick basses as well to compare. My C64S is one of my favorites. What a great sounding bass! Open notes should sound more like fretted notes with a zero fret, but the difference is not huge IMO. Set up is a snap with a zero fret. The action down by the nut can't get any better.
I'm not a slapper, but I don't see how converting a C64S to a regular nut would improve slap-ability.
Bottom line: Big expense, big headache, big chance for a "luthier" botch job, and the result will be little more than a substantial loss in the value of your instrument.
+1!
I loved the zero fret on my old Hofner, and the C64S that I played a couple years ago was one of the nicest Ricks I've played.
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:55 pm
by SamBailler
It is a unique feature. Remove the zero fret and you don't have a C64S anymore, value will drop through the floor, they don't make'em anymore, just don't do it. If you have played a non-zero-fret Ric and can slap happily, then sell the C64S, buy a mapleglo 4003 and have a holiday somewhere nice on the profit. Don't do it just to maybe try and fix a problem you might not actually have.
I'm begging now, just do not do it....
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:08 pm
by paologregorio
I have a Gretsch Chet Atkins with a zero fret and I don't even notice it; I think it's kind of cool. I even like the name "zero fret"; different! I would just leave it the way it is. '
John and Jeff's descriptions make me want to have a bass with a zero fret; want my GL J-bass?
I like your observation, Scott.
Re: Zero Fret
Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:55 pm
by fabandgear
I didn't realize Rickenbacker ever used zero frets! I've owned and played tons of Gretsch guitars and have never found the zero fret to be undesirable. I've heard the argument that folks who do a lot of string bending complain about them, but It's never been an issue for me. It is nice not to have to be at the mercy of a delicate nut for first position string action. Besides, I shouldn't think it would even an issue with bassists (funny, my Gretsch '63 6070 bass doesn't have a zero fret!)