Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Hello All,

Okay, so I have decided that I am going to sell or trade my cool MusicMan Sterling Classic with a Stingray pickup to get a Ric Fretless, which will make me 100% Ric'd. Money is tight, so I will have to unload this to get a Ric FL. I know that 4003FL's are on hiatus right now, so if I want one I will have to wait. What I want to know is should I wait to get one the 4003's with the thinner necks and vintage tone option, or should I try and hunt down an older 4003. Then, there is the whole 4001 thing. I am lost when it comes to these and the best year to look for. I will say I love the neck on my 4003 fretted which was made in 1/10.
I know it is ultimately up to me to choose, but I would like to hear from more knowledgeable folks on their experiences on the pros and cons of the 4003's and 4001's and which years tend to be better than others and what to look for and what is a fair price. I am starting to get G.A.S. for a fretless and want to not make a rash decision.
I appreciate ANY advice or input I can get from you folks. Feel free to nerd out and tell me WAY more info than you think I will want or need. I love it! Feel free to ask me questions if you need more info in order to make a suggestion. It is worth mentioning that I haven't been much for online forums, but the people and threads here are outstanding and I have never felt so welcome and treated so well on a forum. Thank you all so much!

LEL

BTW, anyone interested in buying/trading my MM for a Ric FL feel free to PM me. It is basically a lighter, faster 2-Band Stingray! Hey, you can't blame a guy for trying!

Jason, fortunately for you, used FL's don't usually sell as high as fretted 4001 or 4003 basses since there are alot less people interested in playing fretless basses, so you should be able to come across a nice deal. You do definitely want a 4003FL or would you also consider a 4001FL? Will you be using it in a band?

Joey,

I would consider an 4001FL, but I just don't really know a lot about how they compare to 4003's and the key differences or advantages to each. Cassius has given me a bit of help in this area. I know 4001's sound different and I think the dot inlays are in different places than 4003's, but I may be misinformed. It seems like the 4003's are more standardized, where 4001's vary a little to a lot by year from what I have read. Neck feel is very important to me because I have smaller hands. Even though my 1/10 4003 is 1 11/16" at the nut, it feels wonderful because the neck is flatter on the back where something like a Fender is rounded, which I HATE! I tried a Jazz Bass before I got the Ric and even though it is 1 1/2" at the nut, the roundness of the neck was SO uncomfortable and made any advantage of the narrower neck irrelevant to me and the extra 3/8" of width on a Ric neck feels fine becuase of the flatness. I know this has something to do with neck radius, but I still find that whole discussion confusing.
I will be using this to learn to play jazz and if I get a 4003, I will put toasters in it. I want that real DB sound, like this bass. I think it is a '80 4001:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HHr3Ub8Jm4

Well, I hope this helps the discussion along...

It's hard for me to comment too much as I have large hands and so a really thin neck is annoying to me, but my take on the 4001FL situation is this: if you can find a mid-70s FL (say late '73-'76), the neck should be to your liking. That date range may extend later into the 70s also. Forget finding a 'mid 73 or earlier unless you get lucky. My '73 4001FL is one of only 4 or 5 in the registry from inception to the big change in mid-'73.

My 2008 4003FL has a fairly thin neck profile too. And I've finally gotten it to where it's just right for me:

First two are after a gig last Saturday with my blood on it and the third is after I installed the hipsh*t last night:
You should be able to find a more recent 4003FL for about $1,700-$1,800 or less (on ebay) if it's in really nice shape, but they don't come up all that often. I've seen a relatively large number of mid-70s 4001FLs on ebay over the past six months. As long as you can verify the truss rod issues (if any), forget about dings and all. Those are great basses.

John,

Nice pics and thanks for the tips! I am curious about how the blood got on it...

Jason

I just plain refuse to use a pick on bass. I've got fingertips for pizzicato and I've got fingernails for bigger attack. Sometimes I get a bit over-zealous doing three and four-string strums (I set pedals and then pluck them for contrast regularly); wind-mills optional. And of course there's the adrenaline rush of just smacking the ever-livin' guts out of your bass just for the thrill of it.

I'm classically trained and I played jazz on upright around Boston for a good number of years in the past, but nothing really gets it for me more than good old hard R&R.

The blood is from a rather small but badly abused spot on my right index finger just southeast of the fingernail. Cost of doing business I suppose. My band plays original prog/alternative; some good vids should be up on youtube this week. Hopefully that'll tell the story better than I can.

Find yourself a nice ~'75-'78 4001FL - they seem to be a dime a dozen these days (well, not really...). $1,600 or so and if all the truss rods work fine and the electronics are OK, you've got a steal.

Low End Lover wrote:Joey,

I would consider an 4001FL, but I just don't really know a lot about how they compare to 4003's and the key differences or advantages to each. Cassius has given me a bit of help in this area. I know 4001's sound different and I think the dot inlays are in different places than 4003's, but I may be misinformed. It seems like the 4003's are more standardized, where 4001's vary a little to a lot by year from what I have read..

The 4001FL has a side dot marker placed where every fret would have been. I think the early 4003FLs are the same way. I'm not sure exactly which years the side dot marker where placed where the fingerboard markers are, not at the fret, but instead in between the frets like a fretted 4003. It takes a while, but you can get used to them positioned like that. I think it was 2007 when RIC went to putting them on the FL at the exact fret positions (where the frets would have been) of 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 15, 17 & 19.
I have a '75 4001FL, like John said, it's a great bass!

John, are you trying to compete with Brian Crisman for the scary crime scene bass?!

Jason,

John, Joey & Joshua probably gave you all the best information you can find.

Unless you get an early 70's 4001, you can probably score one pretty reasonably. I've seen 4003FL's go as low $1200.00 in really nice shape.

This thread should help you find the years with the thinnest necks. It's a great help!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=280979&hilit=measure+your+girth

Keep us posted on how you make out!

FretlessOnly wrote:My '73 4001FL is one of only 4 or 5 in the registry from inception to the big change in mid-'73.

John or anyone who knows,

What is the "big change" that is being referred to here?

FretlessOnly wrote:As long as you can verify the truss rod issues (if any), forget about dings and all. Those are great basses.

Also, what sorts of questions or things should I be asking about/looking for here? If I buy online, the only thing I have to go on is the seller’s word and photos.

Educate me, gentlemen!

LEL

Round about June or July of '73, RIC made the following changes to the 4001:

1. Stopped using checkered binding;
2. Stopped using the gap-toothes tailpieces. More important than the gap-tooth itself is the alloy and/or casting process used. The gap-toothed tailpieces seem to be relatively impervious to tail-lift.

As the months went on, the neck toaster P/U was replaced by a high-gain button-top (and in '75, was moved to a 1" spacing). The wavy Grover tuners were phased out in about '74 or '75 (with some notable exceptions). Some changes to the treble PU may also have been done around this time. Basically, mid-'73 was the last time you could get a new bass with all of these features.

FretlessOnly wrote:Stopped using the gap-toothes tailpieces. More important than the gap-tooth itself is the alloy and/or casting process used. The gap-toothed tailpieces seem to be relatively impervious to tail-lift.

So, if I am understanding you right, the later '73 basses on have tailpieces that are more prone to tail-lift? Tail-lift is where the bridge raises off the body? I can see why this would be a bad thing, but what problems can it cause and what is the fix? Still pretty new to Rics, so I still learning their quirks.

Tail-lift is something that can happen on any RIC tailpiece that is cast in the current form. I believe that mid-'73 is the cut-off, since that is when the gap-toothed tailpieces were phased out. Tail-lift is not necessarily a problem in terms of loss of string vibration through the body and people vary in terms of their level of concern with it. I observed modest tail-lift in three RIC basses I have owned or currently own, but not a spec of it in my April '73.

For a while, RIC used 7-screw tailpieces to secure the tailpiece more securely. Combatting the problem can be done by not over-tightening the three screws under the bridge; a more extreme measure is to tape some coins under the tailpiece. There's a thread here about that - it was active just a few months back.

And, in case you're wondering, a 7 Screw Tailpiece looks like this: The screws can be added to "normal" tailpieces too, if you don't mind drilling a couple of holes...

If you're looking for a big sound, I'd get a 4003, just don't get one without dots where every fret would be, otherwise the side dots from a fretted bass (which is what they used for those years) will really throw you off, they made them like that for some inexplicable reason for a few years. If you want a thinner more traditional sound with a slightly smaller neck get a 4001 all 4001's and 4003's until at least the mid 90's and probably more like early 2000's have them in the traditional Ric way.

Jason,

I have an '80 Stingray FL with an ebony board, which is simply a tone monster. I love that huge sound that you can dial up on it, and it's very different from a RIC FL. I also have an early 73 4001 FL, and to compare the two is like comparing apples and oranges. The Ric feels like a toy compared to the Stingray, so light, but still beautifully balanced, and wonderfully for that upright sound and mellow woody timbre. The neck is very thin and a joy to play. The pre 73's are very rare, and I've only seen a handful in over ten years. Much more available are the mid 70's basses, which will still have great neck profiles.

The later basses do have greater output, but usually thicker necks, so it all depends on your critera...

Good luck!