Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I have some old Vox speakers that I think came out of a Thomas Organ Vox amp. I think they are either Oxfords or Utahs. They have "P4561" printed on the cones. Surfing the web I found a Fender speaker of similar type with the same stamp and designated "12K5-6 4S5-401". Are these speakers worth reconing? They work but the paper is very brittle. If you touch it, it almost immediately tears. Also, the gold frames are all oxidized. What can I do to clean them? Any info, including specs, would be appreciated!

They are Oxfords and the designation 465-401 would date them to early 1964 (the last 3 digits are year week week). A single Oxford 12K5-6 speaker was used as original equipment in 1963-66 blackface Fender Deluxe amps, among others. It is an early ceramic-magnet speaker designed to handle about 23 watts of output. It is the general equivalent of a Jensen C12R or C12Q speaker.

Not sure what the frames are made of, so unsure how to clean them; sounds like they could use reconing. IMO they would only be worth reconing if you had the right-sized amp to put them in.

Thanks for the info Ron. I was thinking of getting them re-coned and dropping them into a 2x12 cab I have. I currently have a pair of Carvin British Series BR-12's in there that are 100 watters.

I use the cab with an old German tube amp head, a Klemt Echolette BS40. It's basically a knock off of a Marshall JTM45. It's a 4-holer non-master 35 watt amp that uses 2 EL34's and these rare ECC808 pre-amp tubes. These tubes are "upgrades" to ECC83's (low noise, clean, long life) for audiophiles made by Telefunken. The amp is very clean sounding. But the pin configuration is different so I can't drop in ECC83's to give it a warmer tone, and the sockets are wired to a PC board, so it would probably be an expensive and difficult mod. My thoughts were to go to lower wattage speakers and let the speakers do the work (the 100 watters are keeping it clean too). I'd love to here this amp with some greenbacks.

A recone is going to run me about $50 to $60 each on these, so if they're not good sounding speakers, I'd rather put the money towards new speakers. I might just try some rubber cement on the cracked paper and drop them in just to give them a test run.

IHeartRics wrote:A recone is going to run me about $50 to $60 each on these, so if they're not good sounding speakers, I'd rather put the money towards new speakers. I might just try some rubber cement on the cracked paper and drop them in just to give them a test run.

I would, it wouldn't hurt them. Another old trick was to use nail polish to "paint" them back together.

Providing the voice coil, spider, and diaphragm are intact, rubber cement is a good way to fix a speaker cone. I have never used nail polish for this purpose so I can't comment on how effective that repair methodology might be.

there's a nail polish and tissue paper fix for tears, and a watered down white glue and tissue paper fix as well.

Tissue paper you say................hmmm is there a specification for that stuff?

winston wrote:Tissue paper you say................hmmm is there a specification for that stuff?

Preferably not used

whojamfan wrote:Preferably not used

Great minds don't always think alike, but in this case.................perhaps we do.

I meant tissue wrapping paper, not facial tissues, you wiseacres!

In which case, even used tissue paper would be okay, provided that there was no tap stuck to it. . . . . .

paologregorio wrote:I meant tissue wrapping paper, not facial tissues, you wiseacres!

Oh good, I was worried you might mean the stuff that comes on a roll... In which case used would be...

cjj wrote:

paologregorio wrote:I meant tissue wrapping paper, not facial tissues, you wiseacres!

Oh good, I was worried you might mean the stuff that comes on a roll... In which case used would be...

...closer in color to a speaker cone then unused tissue paper?

Well, I tried cleaning the frames but it was useless. It appears the gold paint is completely oxidized so even taking off the first layer reveals more oxidized paint. Some areas the paint is completely off and the metal exposed. If I end up getting them reconed, I'd probably take it down to the metal and repaint them before repair.

I used some glue to patch the cracks. The "correct" type of tissue ( ) is a good Idea, but these were so fine that I opted not to do that.

I'll try to drop them into the cab soon and report back.

Update: Well I finally used some glue and patched up the speakers. I took the one with the least damage and swapped it with one of the Carvin 100 watt British Series speakers that was in there. I definitely like it. I've seen and heard of people mixing speakers in a 2x12 and 4x12 cabs but never did it before. It adds a nice texture to the Echolette amp. It still gets the clean punch from the Carvin while the Oxford breaks up a little. Kind of Marshall-like. Pretty cool.

IHeartRics wrote:Update: Well I finally used some glue and patched up the speakers. I took the one with the least damage and swapped it with one of the Carvin 100 watt British Series speakers that was in there. I definitely like it. I've seen and heard of people mixing speakers in a 2x12 and 4x12 cabs but never did it before. It adds a nice texture to the Echolette amp. It still gets the clean punch from the Carvin while the Oxford breaks up a little. Kind of Marshall-like. Pretty cool.

Another update. Took the amp and cab to a jam night. Got all kinds of compliments on the sound of the amp (with the 480 of course). I'm going to keep this set up.