Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Hello,
I am new to this site. I would like to start by requesting helpful hints for Rick 12 string guitars. Right now I play amplified Guild F412 & F512 acoustic guitars, but need to add an electric 12 string for what I play. I like the "mapleglow" finish mostly. Here is what I would like to ask:

1. Is it proper to say "Rick" so I don't have to type so much?

2. The 360/12 seems to be the most readily available and at a friendly cost. Is there actually that much difference, or not between the 360/12 and the 370/12? It has been suggested amongst the Guild players for me to get a nice used 360, I could then eventually seek out the 370, with re-sale on most Rick's quite good when expanding to a new guitar.

3. Is it really quite vain to seek out the nice looking "V" model with toaster pickup? Are the high gain pickups actually the better electronic device? What is a WB model? are there any other options that i should know about?

4.Past experience dictates that signature models such as "Roger McGuinn' are priced high. Whether I get the 360 or 370 is there no problem with merely adding a jangle box pedal?

5. Are there any other effects pedals that should be considered for a 12 string? I most likely don't want wah-wah right now.

6. I will be playing mostly Byrds, Beatles, Tom Petty genre music. What amp is a nice one to get for te 360 or 370? I had thoughts of a Fender Twin Reverb, perhaps 40 watt output. I don't like music excessively loud, but will play with a 4 or 5 piece rock band with drums.

Thank you!
Craig

idealassets wrote:Hello,
I am new to this site. I would like to start by requesting helpful hints for Rick 12 string guitars. Right now I play amplified Guild F412 & F512 acoustic guitars, but need to add an electric 12 string for what I play. I like the "mapleglow" finish mostly. Here is what I would like to ask:

1. Is it proper to say "Rick" so I don't have to type so much?

Craig, welcome to the forum! Yes, but stay away from "Ricky."

idealassets wrote: 2. The 360/12 seems to be the most readily available and at a friendly cost. Is there actually that much difference, or not between the 360/12 and the 370/12? It has been suggested amongst the Guild players for me to get a nice used 360, I could then eventually seek out the 370, with re-sale on most Rick's quite good when expanding to a new guitar.

Not much sonic difference IMO though some would say yes. Middle PU wired in series with bridge PU. Wiring mods are available to have each PU on 370 wired separately. Some think this is good. Some don't like middle PU b/c interferes with picking style. IMO 370 appeal is largely visual = McGuinn style. Also don't overlook 330-12. Plain dot fretboard but similar sonic qualities to 360-12 (some would differ). Also larger treble horn (see WB discussion below).

idealassets wrote:3. Is it really quite vain to seek out the nice looking "V" model with toaster pickup? Are the high gain pickups actually the better electronic device? What is a WB model? are there any other options that i should know about?

Vintage models are cool visually b/c have full width fret inlays, vintage headstock shape, other visuals. Nothing "vain" about liking the vintage look. No sonic difference. Hi-gains better IMO for 6-string lead sound; vintage 'toaster-top" PUs starting 2000 were scatterwound like '60s vintage, fewer ohms and have more "jangle" sound esp. on 12-strings. Toasters post-'60s and pre-2000 are same as hi-gains sonically/ohms-wise. WB = double bound, body binding both sides, like 360/12V64, 360/12C63, some regular 360-12s (non-RI) are also double-bound through mid-'90s. IMO WB = visual only, perhaps a bit of sonic differnce due to larger treble horn on WB vs. regular "rounded over" treble horn on non-WB models.

idealassets wrote:4.Past experience dictates that signature models such as "Roger McGuinn' are priced high. Whether I get the 360 or 370 is there no problem with merely adding a jangle box pedal?

That's a very popular way to go. McGuinn on-board compressor is unique to that model; some like it, some not so much. Many like McGuinn model for thinner '60s neck profile than stock 360-12.

idealassets wrote:5. Are there any other effects pedals that should be considered for a 12 string? I most likely don't want wah-wah right now.

I'm not a pedal guy. Someone else please step up to the podium.

idealassets wrote:6. I will be playing mostly Byrds, Beatles, Tom Petty genre music. What amp is a nice one to get for the 360 or 370? I had thoughts of a Fender Twin Reverb, perhaps 40 watt output. I don't like music excessively loud, but will play with a 4 or 5 piece rock band with drums.

See discussion here re best amps for 12-string Ricks: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=386631

You're on the right track with a Rick 12 -- good luck!

idealassets wrote:Thank you!
Craig

The 330/12, 340/12, 360/12 and 370/12 (WB or not, toasters or high-gains) combined with a JangleBox, the right strings, picking style and a good clean amp are all quite capable of generating the sound you are after. There are some differences in the sound, but they are subtle and much of what "that sound" should sound like is a matter of personal interpretation and opinion. You could show up at a Byrd or Beatle gig with any of the above guitars and if you can play the parts, you'll be just fine. I'd try playing some of them if you can and see what you like best, but they're all excellent guitars.

12-string samples
http://webpages.charter.net/tbradshaw/M ... string.mp3

Here's the best advice you can get from any forumite:

Buy a 360/12 C63 in Jetglo. It's double bound, sounds like and has the specifications of George Harrison's Rick 12 string, and it's in JETGLO, which makes it far more unusual and striking that the atypical Fireglo finish most people buy that double bound model in. Plus, the double bound models have pointier horns, which look far more rock n' roll than the round front 360/370 models, which, IMO, always look chubby to my eye, and in any case, by his own admission, Roger McGuinn was looking for a double bound model Rick 12 string when he first went shopping for one back in the1960s, but couldn't find one, so he had to settle for a round front 360. The 360/12 C63 costs more, but in a couple of years you'll forget about the price you paid and be happy with having one of the coolest guitars on the planet.

Cheers,

Paul

*Full disclosure/disclaimer: Every Rickenbacker I own (six total) is a double bound model, so one could argue that my statements might contain the slightest hint of bias. . .
.

Thaks for the replies so far!

Some don't like middle PU b/c interferes with picking style.

-I might have never thought of this. I use either: flatpick and 2 metal fingerpicks, thumb pick and 3 metal fingerpicks (my favorite), or a flatpick only. The fingerpicks usuall exted past my fingernails at least 1/8".

I will have to see how all these picks will play on an electric 12 string. Also I see that a few owners have more than one Rick. That may be me in a short while.

Craig

Buy a 360/12 C63 in Jetglo. It's double bound

I just found out about the "WB"models today from this forum. That is quite the item. Also I never considered Jetglo, but could see how striking that would look playing one.

Unfortunately I don't see many Rickenbackers here in Central Michigan. But there's nothing stopping me, in fact I don't really want to play a Fender guitar, because that is what nearly everyone plays in this area. Also I doubt you would see me with a Telecaster 12 string, when the Rick is such a great instrument.

Craig

Welcome to the RRF Craig. Motor City Guitars in Waterford has a number of Ricks in stock at the moment including a 330-12 FG if I recall correctly. That is a drive worth making for you.

If you're comfortable with the neck on the Guilds then you may find the 360-12 too narrow and cramped.
The 660-12 has a wider neck,closer to the F412.

360 specs:http://www.rickenbacker.com/model.asp?model=360/12

660-12 specs:http://www.rickenbacker.com/model.asp?model=660/12

libratune wrote:Middle PU wired in series with bridge PU.

You meant neck PU, Ron.

Welcome, Craig! This is all a matter of personal preference, and budget.

If budget is a concern, then you can't go wrong with a classic 330/12. It's all about personal preference, and what YOU want.

If Rics are common in your area and your Ric dealer has a boatload of Rics all in the store, try 'em all out, see which one moves you.

For amps, Ron pretty much hit the nail on the head with that thread discussing amps and what we like. My personal favorite amp is a '64 RI Fender Deluxe Reverb. It's loud enough for what I need, and the perfect size for home, a small club or the studio. Plus, wherever I go, I always see the guitarist getting his amp mic'd, from a small Fender Princeton Reverb to a Hiwatt stack. So size isn't an issue apparently, these days, so like Mike Campbell and his guitar tech say, "You don't have to have a lot of power to have the right tone"

As for pedals, a compressor is usually what most of us here use for 12-strings. I, like a good bit of members here, swear by Steve Lasko's Janglebox 1 or 2. There's also the Keeley, MXR Dyna Comp, BOSS CS-3, Diamond and more. A volume pedal is also used by a small amount of folks for their 12-strings.

JakeK wrote:

libratune wrote:Middle PU wired in series with bridge PU.

You meant neck PU, Ron.

You read my mind, Jake.

Correction: Middle PU wired in series with neck PU.

Neck and middle are wired in parallel on the three pickup models. I've got both 2 and 3 pickup models and would recommend that you get a two pickup model. With standard wiring the middle pickup is not all that useful, IMO. And it does take some getting used to if you like to strum/pick where it is. Hope you can find a Rick in your area.

Welcome, Craig!

One other thing about the McGuinn models: the controls are different from the rest. Each pickup has its own volume control and there is a master volume control. The tone is controlled by a rotary switch, three positions of which use the on-board compressor.

doctorwho wrote:One other thing about the McGuinn models: the controls are different from the rest. Each pickup has its own volume control and there is a master volume control. The tone is controlled by a rotary switch, three positions of which use the on-board compressor.

Gary, I know you (and everyone else) is gonna beat the crud out of me if you hear it one more time, but your McGuinn is the most versatile 12-string guitar I've ever played. And I haven't played that many!

Welcome aboard, Craig! You can't go wrong with any of the suggestions on this thread. Please let us know when you make your purchase.

libratune wrote:

JakeK wrote:

libratune wrote:Middle PU wired in series with bridge PU.

You meant neck PU, Ron.

You read my mind, Jake.

Correction: Middle PU wired in series with neck PU.

Uh, I hate to correct one of my elders, but it's neck and middle in parallel, meaning the hot lead of each pickup goes to the same lug on the selector switch to engage in the "up" position. Series wiring would be the ground of one pickup wired to the hot of the next pickup without actually grounding the 1st pickup.

And yes, I'm one who does not care for that sound at all. To me it sounds undefined and insipid. That's why I developed my wiring mods, which I do thank you for referring to.

As stated above, since all Rick 12-string guitars are made of maple with bubinga fretboards, the differences from model to model are subtle. Any will work for you, Unless a particular instrument strikes your fancy for shape, color, the artist(s) it's most associated with otherwise, or personal fiat, all will do very well. Try-before-you-buy to make sure it will work for you is the best, of course, but Rick quality control is so high that, since I live in an area devoid of anything Rickenbacker except for a few of us intrepid souls to carry the torch, I would have no problem ordering one from one of the established retailers you will see mentioned on this board. Just tell them when you order what and how you play and they will set it up for you before shipping.

I agree with the above that if you're used to the traditionally wide necks on most acoustic 12-string guitars, that unless you're prepared to really "come together" on your fingering, that the 660 with its 1 3/4 inch neck instead of the standard electric guitar width of 1 9/16 on the other Rick 12-string models might be a valid consideration.

Also remember that Ricks string their pairs opposite as to an acoustic 12-string.

I played my 360-12 for years through a Fender Vibrolux with no compressor box, just a touch of reverb from the amp. To me, a touch of compression, whether from a POD 2.0 or a Janglebox, is desireable, but optional. Now I play my 12-string through a little Vietnamese Vox Pathfinder 15R solid state amp, and it jangles quite nicely. I've also run it through a Bassman Export head and a 2X12 Jensen Concert 12 cab at times in the past. Running it through my 1975 Marshall 2203 was a little over the top, although even at that, with the pregain down and the master as rational levels it still worked for gigs I needed two guitars, but only one amp. When I can, and not have to carry an amp, I use my POD 2.0 in either the AC30 or Blackface Deluxe mode with the treble cranked and a touch of the onboard digital compression and reverb.

I agree with the above that the lighter wound pickups, like the reissue toasters or the new adjustible polepiece high-gains, work better on a 12-string, because the lesser impedance from the lesser windings translates into a more transparent sound. The '80's 12kohm toasters and some of the older button-top highgains with more windings and more drive do better on the 6-string models. I have had the opportunity to borrow various pickups to see how they sound in my 12-string, and I'm really out there: I took a pair of old 14kohm button tops and unwound them down to 8kohms bridge, 7.5kohms neck. Because there is no ferrous alloy in the bar magnet of a high-gain, as opposed to the alnico slugs of toasters, there is less impedance for the given windings, which translates to a really, really, jangly top end for my instrument. But I've been tinkering for decades. Either the current high gains or the available toasters will work well. The HB-1 humbucking pickups are 15kohm rockers, so they have a prounounce mid peak that is the antithesis of what most consider to be traditional Rick jangle.

Esoteric: the .0047 capacitor in line to the bridge pickup, gives the most "vintage" tone, but on the instruments I've played, I like it better on the 3XX series semi-hollow guitars. I have come to prefer the tone of the pickup, especially the new adjustible pole piece high gains, wired straight through without the cap on the solid body 6XX models. Again, this is at the point of almost indescernible subtlety, but I've been fortunate to have the luxury of playing various models of both basses and guitars since 1981 -- OH, GOD I'M GETTING OLD! ( ) All three of my Ricks (320 JG, 360-12WB FG ckbd, 4002 WG) turn 30 years old this year!!! Later this year I'll have to get a "family portrait" as part of my 50th birthday celebration.

Finally, strings. There are only two sets of strings that give consistently good results out of the box: the stock Rick set, or the Thomastik-Infeld nickel flats custom set available at the retail store Pick-of-the-Ricks. Everything else has either the wrong feel, or won't intonate correctly with the stock 6-saddle, 2-notches per saddle bridge.

Welcome to Rickenbacker!