Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Apologies in advance if this has already been discussed here at length, but I'm trying to get a better handle on the Ric bass horseshoe pickups.

I just bought a used Ric 4001 V63 and somewhere along the line one of the owners removed the horseshoes from the bridge pickup--the pickup sounds fine, quite good, in fact. From what I understand, the current reissue Ric horseshoes are different from the originals in that the horseshoe is now more ornamental than functional. The pickup that would have been on a mid-60s 4001 would have been a true horseshoe pickup, with the horseshoes acting as magnets. The Lollar limited-run horseshoe pickups are true horseshoes.

I'm wondering if there are any downsides to the original design vs the reissue--possibility of demagnetization, or lots of noise, etc. I wonder why Ric moved away from it and also why the reissues are not accurate, since so much of what they do otherwise does tend to be accurate.

The original shoes could lose their charge over time. I believe the early V63s (like '85) had actual HS pickups, magnetized and all. I don't know if it was just the first few or what...

I'm thinking it has a lot to do with economics. The old horseshoes, where the shoes were the magnets, had a tenancy to lose magnetism. The type of steel they were made of is no longer available, but there are other similar types.

Then, magnetic material research has come up with a lot better materials than what was available in the '30s, or even the '60s. But finding magnets in cylindrical pieces is a whole lot easier and cheaper than getting custom made horseshoe shaped pieces. So, you either go with some type of steel that is easily shaped, but doesn't hold a charge all that well, custom shaped magnets out of a good modern material, or readily available cylindrical magnets. The last option is by far the cheapest way to get a good, long lasting magnet.

At some point, in either this forum, or the RIC corporate one, John Hall mentioned that they did quite a lot of research into making the reissue horseshoes sound very much like the originals, so there's probably not a huge difference in sound. So, you get the looks and the sound of the originals, but made with better materials so they last...

cjj wrote:At some point, in either this forum, or the RIC corporate one, John Hall mentioned that they did quite a lot of research into making the reissue horseshoes sound very much like the originals, so there's probably not a huge difference in sound. So, you get the looks and the sound of the originals, but made with better materials so they last...

Although he's not a professional engineer (as far as I know), among his other qualities, Mr. Hall is a natural-born engineer at heart.

Well, those re-issue HS pickups have the kick of an angry mule!

rickcrazy wrote:Well, those re-issue HS pickups have the kick of an angry mule!

rickcrazy wrote:Well, those re-issue HS pickups have the kick of an angry mule!

Absolutely! I love them!

I do have a "Lollar HS" coming and I'm anxious to hear what it's like.

Lollar's latest HS has Mylar connecting the HSs on top, which, of course, everybody's gonna remove:
Given the title of the photo ("horseshoelegal.jpg"), I'm gonna venture a guess that this is his work-around for Rick's patent.

Comments?

An alnico horseshoe magnet, with normal charge, would probably kill most of the tone and sustain.

I didn't know they were doing that. The one I'm getting is from 2005.

An alnico horseshoe magnet, with normal charge, would probably kill most of the tone and sustain.

Please explain.

jingle_jangle wrote:Lollar's latest HS has Mylar connecting the HSs on top, which, of course, everybody's gonna remove:

horseshoe-legal-300x132.jpg

Given the title of the photo ("horseshoelegal.jpg"), I'm gonna venture a guess that this is his work-around for Rick's patent.

Comments?

Well, as far as I know, the patent on the horseshoe expired decades ago...

But, there's the issue of trade dress, which can get a lot more complicated...

Hmmm, I wonder what happens with humbuckers, strat, and tele pickups in that regard.

teeder wrote:I didn't know they were doing that. The one I'm getting is from 2005.

An alnico horseshoe magnet, with normal charge, would probably kill most of the tone and sustain.

Please explain.

huge magnetic pull on the strings

cjj wrote:

jingle_jangle wrote:Lollar's latest HS has Mylar connecting the HSs on top, which, of course, everybody's gonna remove:

horseshoe-legal-300x132.jpg

Given the title of the photo ("horseshoelegal.jpg"), I'm gonna venture a guess that this is his work-around for Rick's patent.

Comments?

Well, as far as I know, the patent on the horseshoe expired decades ago...

But, there's the issue of trade dress, which can get a lot more complicated...

I meant to say, "trade dress", as it is an appearance issue...

The only comment i will make is Lollar is associated with very high quality work,and it looks like the price is going to be somewhat reasonable. (still way more than I would pay for a pickup,but then i'm frugal by necessity.)