Gibson raided, AGAIN
Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
Excellent point with regard to the growing political discussion here. I am not sure that we can take this thread any further south without closing it. Let's get back to topic whatever that is at this point.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
Another WSJ article...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 59286.html
A couple more details come to light.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 59286.html
A couple more details come to light.
Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
Same here, I love talking to them in spanish though!jps wrote:We used to go to a Chinese restaurant in Santa Monica where all the cooks were Mexican............
- electrofaro
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Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
Hah! If only it were that easy!ken_j wrote:The Brazillian Rosewood is validated by CITES.
'67 Fender Coronado II CAB * '17 1963 ES-335 PB * currently rickless
Gibson raided, AGAIN
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/02/smallbu ... id=Popular
This is an interesting story that probably has alot of chapters in front of it. I am surprised by the second raid if the company and the government were working on good faith to figure out the issues. If they were confiscating those autotuner modules, so what, but this is part of the instrument itself.
I know wood types and sourcing has been discussed here over the years, but in light of the actions taken against Gibson, what can other guitar makers (big builders as well as artisans like PW) do to not get into this grey area? You can always lawyer-up, but are the laws written clearly enough (it doesn't seem so since the argument is over veneer and finished good)? Is this situation going to be akin to ivory and its legal and illegal uses today?
I know this is a RIC forum, so we can talk about, say, the fretboard material, but maybe an "american-made guitar" discussion is good too. I'm not certain of the particular forum rules on this. I left the guitar maker name in because it is part of the story link.
EDIT:
sorry, it's being discussed in the forum below.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=402426&start=30&hilit=gibson+raid
This is an interesting story that probably has alot of chapters in front of it. I am surprised by the second raid if the company and the government were working on good faith to figure out the issues. If they were confiscating those autotuner modules, so what, but this is part of the instrument itself.
I know wood types and sourcing has been discussed here over the years, but in light of the actions taken against Gibson, what can other guitar makers (big builders as well as artisans like PW) do to not get into this grey area? You can always lawyer-up, but are the laws written clearly enough (it doesn't seem so since the argument is over veneer and finished good)? Is this situation going to be akin to ivory and its legal and illegal uses today?
I know this is a RIC forum, so we can talk about, say, the fretboard material, but maybe an "american-made guitar" discussion is good too. I'm not certain of the particular forum rules on this. I left the guitar maker name in because it is part of the story link.
EDIT:
sorry, it's being discussed in the forum below.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=402426&start=30&hilit=gibson+raid
'turn up the bass'
Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
8mileshigher wrote:johnallg wrote:Oh that they worked this hard on illegal drug raids or god forbid Congress was this "dilligent". But then I guess they are operating at about the same logically.
Yeah, lets hassle the music-makers and let those breaking everyday laws get a bye.
John, I guess we have the startings of an Anti Fretboard Raid tea party contingent !
I'm in!
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Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
Letter from Namm to Pres. Obama & Members of Congress:
'67 Fender Coronado II CAB * '17 1963 ES-335 PB * currently rickless
Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
I predict that the people that signed will soon be auditted by our over-reaching government.
- coolhandjjl
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Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
teeder wrote:I predict that the people that signed will soon be auditted by our over-reaching government.
Naww, that's a Nixon tactic.
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John Luke aka Coolhand
John Luke aka Coolhand
Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
Please show some restraint and don't post any more political comments, or else we will be forced to lock this very informative and interesting thread.
See rule #5 viewtopic.php?f=25&t=391087
See rule #5 viewtopic.php?f=25&t=391087
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
I love that headline: "Is your Gibson guitar contraband?" Is the government going to break into my house, beat up my mom (Who doesn't live with me), and take my two Gibsons?
What is this? The war on wood? Did the government have to bring in their own stash of Indian wood to make the pile higher for the media? (That actually happened when the War on Drugs kicked off, but it was pot.)
I have no idea why Gibson has been pinpointed. I have had Fender/Squiers made from Indian Basswood. I'm guessing this is for Rosewood?
What is this? The war on wood? Did the government have to bring in their own stash of Indian wood to make the pile higher for the media? (That actually happened when the War on Drugs kicked off, but it was pot.)
I have no idea why Gibson has been pinpointed. I have had Fender/Squiers made from Indian Basswood. I'm guessing this is for Rosewood?
Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
I have merged two threads covering this story. No posts were lost in the merge process...... Again please continue to refrain from political comments as per my recent post on that subject.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
It's difficult to discuss government intervention without getting political, isn't it?
Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
Yes it is. But there is a fine line that we must not cross.Ain'tGotNoPokemon wrote:It's difficult to discuss government intervention without getting political, isn't it?
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
"You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother" - Albert Einstein
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Re: Gibson raided, AGAIN
I hope this isn't considered political, but... Someone mentioned earlier that the government doesn't crack down on the real everyday crimes, and gets people like Gibson to throw the American's attention span elsewhere. I'm not sure what some people's definition of everyday crimes are, but I think of: breaking the speed limit, jay walking, illegal music downloads, and other crimes that are not crimes against humanity, but could be "potentially" harmful. However, millions of people do it. I believe it was Paul, or maybe Ken Hall (?) who mentioned Tom Petty and other musicians traveling across state lines with the instruments, which may violate certain state laws. Small, everyday crimes. I have never heard of a cop pulling over someone, and asking to inspect their instrument to see if their wood is within state regulations, just like many police let people break the law by going five or more MPH over the speed limit, and jay walk.
So, trading, or importing/exporting products is a big business. Gibson is a corporation, and for years, liberals and conservatives (not the politicians, but regular people) have been wanting the government to crack down on the big men in the big buildings. If Gibson was indeed harboring and using illegal woods, then what's the problem? When I first heard about this, I was outraged and cynical, but what has Gibson done for me lately? The last one I purchased was in '05, and haven't exactly heard excellent reviews about them. If they're a big company, putting out expensive instruments that aren't up to the par of their pricing, but also possibly containing illegal wood, I think the government should investigate them. Instead of auditing "random" everyday people, why not investigate white collar businesses a little more? If Exxon was putting cucumbers in their oil, I'm probably not the only one who would appreciate the government confiscating the vegetables.
Again, I tried to leave politics out of this post. I haven't said anything about political parties, politicians, the government doing vicious things, etc. If I had made a political statement, it wouldn't have been pretty.
So, trading, or importing/exporting products is a big business. Gibson is a corporation, and for years, liberals and conservatives (not the politicians, but regular people) have been wanting the government to crack down on the big men in the big buildings. If Gibson was indeed harboring and using illegal woods, then what's the problem? When I first heard about this, I was outraged and cynical, but what has Gibson done for me lately? The last one I purchased was in '05, and haven't exactly heard excellent reviews about them. If they're a big company, putting out expensive instruments that aren't up to the par of their pricing, but also possibly containing illegal wood, I think the government should investigate them. Instead of auditing "random" everyday people, why not investigate white collar businesses a little more? If Exxon was putting cucumbers in their oil, I'm probably not the only one who would appreciate the government confiscating the vegetables.
Again, I tried to leave politics out of this post. I haven't said anything about political parties, politicians, the government doing vicious things, etc. If I had made a political statement, it wouldn't have been pretty.