Gibson raided, AGAIN

[admin]

Excellent point with regard to the growing political discussion here. I am not sure that we can take this thread any further south without closing it. Let's get back to topic whatever that is at this point.

[RIC_FACTORY]

Another WSJ article...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 59286.html

A couple more details come to light.

[Ivan3000]

We used to go to a Chinese restaurant in Santa Monica where all the cooks were Mexican............

Same here, I love talking to them in spanish though!

[electrofaro]

The Brazillian Rosewood is validated by CITES.

Hah! If only it were that easy!

[Lefty4001]

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/02/smallbu ... id=Popular

This is an interesting story that probably has alot of chapters in front of it. I am surprised by the second raid if the company and the government were working on good faith to figure out the issues. If they were confiscating those autotuner modules, so what, but this is part of the instrument itself.

I know wood types and sourcing has been discussed here over the years, but in light of the actions taken against Gibson, what can other guitar makers (big builders as well as artisans like PW) do to not get into this grey area? You can always lawyer-up, but are the laws written clearly enough (it doesn't seem so since the argument is over veneer and finished good)? Is this situation going to be akin to ivory and its legal and illegal uses today?

I know this is a RIC forum, so we can talk about, say, the fretboard material, but maybe an "american-made guitar" discussion is good too. I'm not certain of the particular forum rules on this. I left the guitar maker name in because it is part of the story link.

EDIT:
sorry, it's being discussed in the forum below.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=402426&start=30&hilit=gibson+raid

[teeder]

Oh that they worked this hard on illegal drug raids or god forbid Congress was this "dilligent". But then I guess they are operating at about the same logically.

Yeah, lets hassle the music-makers and let those breaking everyday laws get a bye.

John, I guess we have the startings of an Anti Fretboard Raid tea party contingent !

I'm in!

[electrofaro]

Letter from Namm to Pres. Obama & Members of Congress:

[teeder]

I predict that the people that signed will soon be auditted by our over-reaching government.

[coolhandjjl]

I predict that the people that signed will soon be auditted by our over-reaching government.

Naww, that's a Nixon tactic.

[winston]

Please show some restraint and don't post any more political comments, or else we will be forced to lock this very informative and interesting thread.

See rule #5 viewtopic.php?f=25&t=391087

[Ain'tGotNoPokemon]

I love that headline: "Is your Gibson guitar contraband?" Is the government going to break into my house, beat up my mom (Who doesn't live with me), and take my two Gibsons?

What is this? The war on wood? Did the government have to bring in their own stash of Indian wood to make the pile higher for the media? (That actually happened when the War on Drugs kicked off, but it was pot.)

I have no idea why Gibson has been pinpointed. I have had Fender/Squiers made from Indian Basswood. I'm guessing this is for Rosewood?

[winston]

I have merged two threads covering this story. No posts were lost in the merge process...... Again please continue to refrain from political comments as per my recent post on that subject.

[Ain'tGotNoPokemon]

It's difficult to discuss government intervention without getting political, isn't it?

[winston]

It's difficult to discuss government intervention without getting political, isn't it?

Yes it is. But there is a fine line that we must not cross.

[Ain'tGotNoPokemon]

I hope this isn't considered political, but... Someone mentioned earlier that the government doesn't crack down on the real everyday crimes, and gets people like Gibson to throw the American's attention span elsewhere. I'm not sure what some people's definition of everyday crimes are, but I think of: breaking the speed limit, jay walking, illegal music downloads, and other crimes that are not crimes against humanity, but could be "potentially" harmful. However, millions of people do it. I believe it was Paul, or maybe Ken Hall (?) who mentioned Tom Petty and other musicians traveling across state lines with the instruments, which may violate certain state laws. Small, everyday crimes. I have never heard of a cop pulling over someone, and asking to inspect their instrument to see if their wood is within state regulations, just like many police let people break the law by going five or more MPH over the speed limit, and jay walk.

So, trading, or importing/exporting products is a big business. Gibson is a corporation, and for years, liberals and conservatives (not the politicians, but regular people) have been wanting the government to crack down on the big men in the big buildings. If Gibson was indeed harboring and using illegal woods, then what's the problem? When I first heard about this, I was outraged and cynical, but what has Gibson done for me lately? The last one I purchased was in '05, and haven't exactly heard excellent reviews about them. If they're a big company, putting out expensive instruments that aren't up to the par of their pricing, but also possibly containing illegal wood, I think the government should investigate them. Instead of auditing "random" everyday people, why not investigate white collar businesses a little more? If Exxon was putting cucumbers in their oil, I'm probably not the only one who would appreciate the government confiscating the vegetables.

Again, I tried to leave politics out of this post. I haven't said anything about political parties, politicians, the government doing vicious things, etc. If I had made a political statement, it wouldn't have been pretty.