Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Hello all,

I did a search on this, but the closest thing I got to it were discussions about alternate tunings, which is not what I am wondering about...
So, what I am wondering about is this: I have a 620/12 strung with the POTR's TI set and I picked it up to play the other day. It sounded fantastic and really had that 60's sound. When I was finished, I checked the tuning before I put it up. When I did, I realized all the strings were a bit flat, so I got them back to standard. When I picked a bit after tuning, the guitar just sounded somewhat bland and not as cool as it did before tuning...
My question is about tuning and if people tune their 12's a bit flat. I seem to recall reading that McGuinn tuned certain strings flat, but I can't really remember the specifics. I would like to hear some of your more expereinced 12 stringers talk to me about this and if there is something to this or am I just tone deaf?!

Thanks,

LEL (Jason)

Some people like to tune the fundamental low E and A strings a tad flat, as Roger demonstrates in his famous 12-string video, but if a guitar is set up properly with a 12-saddle bridge this shouldn't be necessary. But then, if you want an authentic vintage sound, you'll probably want to be a little out of tune!

Another perspective on tuning... In the Tony Bacon 12-String Rickenbacker book (get it if you don't already have it!), there's an interview with David Gregory in which he recommends tuning the lower G-string flat a quarter of a tone. However the book doesn't specify if this advice is for Rickenbacker 12-strings or other 12-string guitars. Given that, I'd follow Roger McGuinn's advice on his 12-String instructional DVD to tune the low E and low B strings (not the A string) "just a little bit flat because of the nature of the guitar". BTW, I'd recommend getting that DVD too!

stsang wrote:I'd follow Roger McGuinn's advice on his 12-String instructional DVD to tune the low E and low B strings (not the A string) "just a little bit flat because of the nature of the guitar". BTW, I'd recommend getting that DVD too!

Um, low E and A. Checkity check yo-self!

jdogric12 wrote:

stsang wrote:I'd follow Roger McGuinn's advice on his 12-String instructional DVD to tune the low E and low B strings (not the A string) "just a little bit flat because of the nature of the guitar". BTW, I'd recommend getting that DVD too!

Um, low E and A. Checkity check yo-self!

I hate to disagree with my RRF senior, but I just checked the video again and I stand by earlier comment! He mentions tuning the B[flat] string a little flat just before he talks about the 12-string saddle on his guitar. Here's a transcript (I hope I'm not breaking any copyright laws):

Here's the A-flat strings... (pluck pluck)
The D-flat strings... (pluck pluck)
The G-flat strings... (pluck pluck)
and the B strings are another one you have to kind of cheat on just a little bit. Tune them just a little bit flat because of the nature on the guitar.
(then talks about the 12-string saddle)

I tune the B strings slightly flat - but not so that I'm getting a flat B - I tune them that way so that I'm NOT getting a sharp 3rd fret D note on the B strings. In fact, I seldom tune the B strings open at all, I fret the string and tune to that third fret D. The only other place I will do this sort of thing is the low E primary string if the guitar has a six-saddle bridge. I will tune it to the third fret G (also to keep it from going sharp). The low E octave string can generally be tuned to an open E and works fine that way. With a 12-saddle bridge, this low E adjustment usually isn't needed and the lowest E can be tuned open, but the B strings will likely still need adjustment. Everything else is tuned to the tuner. The intent is always to get the guitar to sound in tune, rather than anything sounding purposely sharp or flat. A twelve-string in the background sending out out-of-tune chime is really annoying to listen to.

Obviously, the need to do such things, and how much, will depend to some extent on how your bridge was intonated and/or what specific chords you might need to sound best for a particular song as being "in tune". It is always going to be some sort of compromise and no 12-string is ever going to be perfectly in tune everywhere. Small amounts of this effect can make it stand out in a good way. Larger amounts can make it stand out in a not so good way.

A couple of ergonomic things to also keep in mind as you play. Feel free to "get into" your playing as much as you want, but try not to unconsciously be bending the neck back and forth as you do so. Also be aware that on some gauges of wound strings (like low E, low A), it's actually possible to bend notes sharp, just by using a lot of downward finger pressure and bending the string over the frets. When I first switched to TIs and was buying individual strings and trying to put a good set together I was having some trouble on the low E and A primary strings with this. The strings were decently in tune, either open or fretted, yet when I'd start playing the song there would be times when they sounded sharp. I eventually found that on some chord changes, I was gripping a lot harder than others and it was making the temporary difference. Evening out my "gripping power" and changing to slightly heavier strings for those two fixed the problem. I think I finally arrived at the same gauges that are listed in the current POTR sets and it's no longer a problem.

Ok, since you said "low B" that made me think it was the A instead. Here's why I said E & A... check this out... this is what I was thinking of.

As usual, plenty of good information here on the RRF. Thanks to all for your input. It looks like flattening things a bit sounds like what I'll do!