Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

HELP!!! I have tons of questions about setting up my PC to record and edit music. My goals are not too lofty and I'm not planning on producing large scale music productions or setting up an dedicated hone studio. I'd like to record me playing along with music from my I-Pod and possibly incorporate my playing with video for posting on You Tube and that sort of stuff. I'd like the quality to be good since there is not sense posting **** to the internet.

My computer is a Windows based PC with 2.80 GB Processor with 6. GB of RAM and a 64 bit operating system.

I have no Firewire ports, only USB.

My sound card is pretty basic and I'm not sure if I need to upgrade to be more successful.

I purchased Mixcraft 5 from Acoustica.

I'm not opposed to adding a Firewire card if that will enable me to get better results. I realize I also need to add an Audio Interface as well so I'm looking for suggestions here as well.

I'm not sure if I'd get better results if I plug my bass into the AI directly or by using a microphone to record from my amp.

Any opinions or guidance in these areas??

Sepp

You might want to get a USB audio interface. You can probably get a good two channel one for less than $100 then install the free ASIO4ALL driver from the Internet. Having done all that you may need to tweak buffer sizes to minimize latency without getting a stuttering output.
I have tried using a consumer audio card to use with multitrack software like Mixcraft but the hardware was just not up to it. I have used an EMU 0202 with success though.

Thanks Hal. I was a bit worried with latency, although I'm not anywhere close to plugging it, yet. Is it possible to get ZERO latency with a USB connected AI? I'm pretty sure my audio card will not be up to the task either. That's a pretty easy swap, though.

Sepp

I was able to get close enough to 0 to where it didn't mess with me. And if thats still not good enough, you can usually compensate afterward by moving the audio backward a micro-moment if needed.

I've done quite a bit of recording over the past 2 years using a Line 6 GX USB interface and PodFarm amp modelling software. The sound quality was very good, and there is essentially zero latency (certainly none detectable to my ears, anyway). About a month ago I bought a Vox Tonelab EX, in part because of the rave reviews people here were giving its smaller sibling, the ST. The main technical difference is that the amp and effects modelling takes place using the device's own processor rather than my computer's CPU. Unfortunately I've been too busy to do much recording with the Tonelab yet, but the sound quality and amp/effect modelling is excellent and there is also zero latency when recording.

The Tonelab was more expensive than the Line 6 interface & software, but also serves as a multi-effect stompbox for use with an amp.

In my experience, if you're recording at home you are going to get much better results with a direct input and an amp modeler or amp modeling software than you will trying to record your amp with a microphone.

I should also note that both the Line 6 GX and the Tonelab have considerably better built-in sound cards than I have on my notebook. My notebook sound card sometimes has problems playing back recordings on my DAW that have a lot of parts or use mutiple virtual instruments (i.e., keyboards and drums) that put a heavy load on the CPU, but the GX and the Tonelab can handle them fine.

EDIT: since you're a bass guy, the Tonelab may not be right for you -- the amp models are all guitar amps, and I'm not sure how they'd sound with a bass. The Line 6 software is mostly guitar-focused but they do have a few bass amps, and a collection of additional bass amps they sell as a separate add-on package.

Update, I purchased an Avid M0Audio Fast Track Pro Audio Interface and I've been screwing with it all weekend. I attempted to download the ASIO4all fix to lower the delay through my sound card but for the life of me I can't seem to get it to adhere to my driver. I tried to get latency down to a manageable level but I still have a bit of delay. Not bad when I play slow but for very fast tempo songs with lots of filler notes, it's quite maddening to hear while playing.

My monitor volume is also very low so i was thinking my sound card and speakers are not up to the task. i priced out a Soundblaster ASIO sound card at $140. and new speakers at around $100. Not too bad but I'm wondering if I really need it. if I get a decent set of head phones or plug new speakers directly into the back of the Audio Interface, via the RCA jacks, I think I can monitor my playing in real time without having to monitor the sound through my sound card and getting delayed.

As you all have probably figured out by now, I'm not very computer savvy. I tried to get a few help suggestions on the ASIO4all help page but that did not help. To boot, my wife's laptop is no longer a part of the home network and co no longer print to the printer hooked up to my computer so I'm sure I screwed up something there while screwing with software things on my computer.

What a mess, I somehow thought this would be easier.

Sepp

Just curious, but why would you be monitoring your playing through your computer? I'm assuming you must be recording with Direct Input as opposed to mic'ing your amp. (Something i'm not fond of, DI boxes always sound stale to me, but that's another debate alltogether) Getting zero latency though a USB interface is pretty much impossible, and even if you got a beefier soundcard your computer would need the processing power to match, or you'd just be creating a bottleneck. Your interface should have a headphone/monitor output for zero latency monitoring.

1) Get rid of asio4all.
2) Get the latest M-audio drivers.
3) Open the M-Audio control panel write down the settings and post them.
4) Don't do anything else until then.

Any latency you are experiencing is coming from the Fast Track NOT your sound card. DO NOT waste money upgrading it.

Erik,

This is all new to me, like learning a new complicated language. The Mixcraft 5 software I purchased seemed to indicate advantages in being able to monitor my sound live while playing but I'm not seeing it. The software has Shred which adds effect to the sound and I'm sure I won't hear those effects through the AI if I go direct. I guess it's a moot point since I think I can alter the sound with Shred once the track is loaded on the computer and tweek it as I play it back.
Dumping $200.+ into new soundcards and speakers seems like a waste on cash. I know shame on me for not having a set of headphones but that is the next purchase.

I thought I was taking the logical route since monitoring the sound through the computer was advertised as being doable. If I can get better results with headphones and skip the computer monitoring, I'll invest my money in headphones rather than a $140. sound card.

Like I said, it's a completely new experience and I'm trying to learn as I go and be smart about buying things I may or may not need. I've gotten some good advice and positive motivation here.

Sepp

tmossman wrote:1) Get rid of asio4all.
2) Get the latest M-audio drivers.
3) Open the M-Audio control panel write down the settings and post them.
4) Don't do anything else until then.

Any latency you are experiencing is coming from the Fast Track NOT your sound card. DO NOT waste money upgrading it.

Todd,

Will do! I'm working nites but I'll try your suggestion ASAP and post my results here. Thanks!!

Sepp

I agree with Todd that the first thing you want to do is get rid of ASIO4ALL. It solves some problems in systems with multiple ASIO cards but tends to complicate most other configurations.

I'm not directly familiar with either your choice of sound card or software, however, I can suggest that if both support different driver modes, to try them all. This is especially true if you are running Windows 7 or even Vista, as the audio device handling has improved greatly since XP. While ASIO generally was the gold standard in the past for low latency, WDM now can often perform better and is stable.

FYI, latency less than 10 ms is generally not noticeable but often the software does not correctly display the actual latency number correctly, especially when plugins are also active.

Direct monitoring is always preferable when possible; this can even work with midi tracks by recording midi data but listening to the analog voice of a synth, unless it's a controller-only device, in which case you have to listen to the computer.

Don't lose your receipt. I got a new Native Instruments audio interface a couple of weeks ago so I could have additional inputs and also have an integrated phantom power supply. I unplugged the EMU and plugged in the new (more expensive) one after installing the drivers and found I could not configure it so it would work as well as the Emu. The drivers I found were lacking features that I took for granted on the Emu. I haven't given up on the Native Instruments interface yet, it has some very nice features: 4 inputs, it's supposed to be controllable via midi, plus reviewers seem to think it's pretty nifty. Perhaps it is more comfortable with a 32 bit OS instead of the 64 bit Win 7 I am running on all my machines. I don't know...

Halbert wrote:Perhaps it is more comfortable with a 32 bit OS instead of the 64 bit Win 7 I am running on all my machines. I don't know...

64bit Win7 has whats called "Windows on Windows" which allows you to run 32bit applications without emulation, so if you install the x86 version that shouldn't matter.

Halbert wrote:Don't lose your receipt. I got a new Native Instruments audio interface a couple of weeks ago so I could have additional inputs and also have an integrated phantom power supply. I unplugged the EMU and plugged in the new (more expensive) one after installing the drivers and found I could not configure it so it would work as well as the Emu. The drivers I found were lacking features that I took for granted on the Emu. I haven't given up on the Native Instruments interface yet, it has some very nice features: 4 inputs, it's supposed to be controllable via midi, plus reviewers seem to think it's pretty nifty. Perhaps it is more comfortable with a 32 bit OS instead of the 64 bit Win 7 I am running on all my machines. I don't know...

NI usually makes great stuff. Lots of times access to specific modes or features of a card and their associated driver is controlled by the DAW software itself. If you don't want to change that, you might look and see if NI includes their own control panel software, which let's you do the configuration separately from the DAW package.

Grey wrote: 64bit Win7 has whats called "Windows on Windows" which allows you to run 32bit applications without emulation, so if you install the x86 version that shouldn't matter.

That's fine and true for applications but drivers have to be written specifically for 32 or 64 operating system versions.

johnhall wrote:That's fine and true for applications but drivers have to be written specifically for 32 or 64 operating system versions.

Oops, I skimmed over his post too quickly, thanks for the correction.