Cill Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

Discuss the early days of the Club with the manager.
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Cill Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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Cilla Black recently talked to the BBC about the Iron Door Club. I though visitors here might find this interesting.
Cilla.mp3
Cilla Talks About The Iron Door Club with BBC
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Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm

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Re: Cilla Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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Thank you Peter; Many words have been written and spoken about how Cilla started her illustrious career in show business,
she has always maintained that she started singing in the Iron Door(aka Liverpool Jazz Society). One quote from Cilla :-
"Everyone Claimed Me but really I started singing at the Iron Door Club"
This was Cilla's second lunchtime appearance, the previous day she sang with Rory Storm's band.Peter McCormack has written a article on the Iron Door site detailing her singing experience with Rory.In April 1961 two weeks after her singing experience with the Beatles she appeared on one of the regular All Night sessions at the Iron Door billed as the 'SWINGING CILLA'.
She was much in demand after the marathon allnighter, singing eventually with Kingsize Taylor and the Dominoes
and the Big Three. It is well documented that Brian Epstein invited her to join his very successful enterprise.
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Re: Cill Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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While I’ve racked my brains, I can’t ever personally recall seeing a young Cilla Black onstage with either of the groups fronted by Rory Storm and Kingsize Taylor – though she most certainly was. However, I can remember seeing her with the Big Three and, if my memory is still serving me correct, one of the numbers she used to sing with them was the Doris Day hit of 1958 “Everybody Loves a Lover” - but I'm a bit hazy on if it was at the Iron Door or at the "other place".

Now, I’ve unsuccessfully scoured YouTube to find a download of either Cilla Black or the Big Three doing a version of the song that was then popular amongst Liverpool groups. The nearest I could get to it was that of Cilla Black’s only serious female competition on the Liverpool club scene at the time – the 16-year Beryl Marsden ...

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Re: Cilla Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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Cilla performed often at the Kraal Club Wallasey on a Sunday night backed by the Pressmen, this certainly is in your neck of the woods Peter, perhaps you may have seen her there in your pursuit of live acts!
A recent trawl of the Liverpool Echo for March/April 1961 revealed that the only dates that Cilla could have performed was lunchtime sessions Tuesday 14th Rory Storm and the Wild Ones, Wed15th (double bill) The Beatles plus Gerry and the Pacemakers. If it is any consolation I missed seeing her perform with Rory I did however hear her outside in Temple Street.
Bouncy Bubbly Beryl Marsden terrific interpretation of Every Body Loves a Lover originally recorded by Barbie Gaye 1956
(I think. Some one is sure to correct me) was like a breath of fresh air brought back huge memories.
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Re: Cill Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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To tell you the truth Geoff, on my side of the river I very rarely if ever went out on a Sunday evening. My regular “out” nights were Thursday, Friday and Saturday – and occasionally a Tuesday or a Wednesday if Everton were playing at home in a floodlight evening fixture during the football (soccer) season. As I didn’t leave school until I was eighteen, in term-time Sunday evening was something of a “have you done all your homework yet” session for me – my mother made sure of that. Also, nine-times-out-of-ten, come Sunday I’d be out of money.

I remember the Pressmen at the Kraal Club both before and after they recruited frontman Derry Wilkie. I recall the group were something of a fixture there. Thanks to Google, this is a photograph of the Kraal Club said to have been taken in the “early 1960s” – I don’t think it was because I don’t remember those three iron posts being there. I have a feeling those iron posts were erected some years later to prevent cars being parked off-road and blocking the entrance to the club and after the name was changed from the Kraal Club to the Golden Guinea.
Kraal Club.JPG
However, arguably my favourite Birkenhead venue was the Majestic Ballroom on Conway Street. Previously a 1,000-seater cinema, the Top Rank organisation took it over circa 1957 and converted it into what they liked to call “one of Top Rank’s Luxury Ballrooms”. The Majestic Ballroom, Birkenhead closed its doors for the last time in 1969 and the building became something of a 25-year eyesore as the economic fortunes of the area declined - testified by THIS 1996 PHOTOGRAPH.

While as a 17-year old the Majestic Ballroom really wasn’t the place to go in Birkenhead until after June 1962. When Brian Epstein put the Beatles in suits and persuaded the rather conservative management of Top Rank to book the group for a series of trial dates. The Top Rank management, while having initial reservations about what they were letting themselves in for, quickly saw the response and the resulting full dance floor and starting putting on regular dates that featured other local groups.

For about two years, the Majestic really was the place to go in Birkenhead for my generation. It was relatively easy for me to get to and from, it was cheap, it was safe (I remember the management had a strict dress code and there was never hardly any trouble) and most importantly of all, the girls always out-numbered the boys. Even the TV cameras filmed what was going on there at the time … this film footage was shot inside the Majestic Ballroom, Birkenhead for the 1963 Granada TV documentary “Beat City”



When I was eighteen, I passed my driving test and bought from a relative his trusty old Ford Anglia 4-Cylinder Side-Value 103E LIKE THIS ONE - but in black. My god it was a slow motor, the steering heavy, didn’t like going up hills but loved coming down them, but never gave me any trouble and always eventually got me where I wanted to go.

Come a Saturday evening a few of us would sometimes head the near 20-mile down the A41 to the Roman City of Chester and Quaintways (aka The Wall City Jazz Club). Those were the days Geoff, when petrol (gasoline) was only 5 Shillings a gallon, I could put a Pound’s worth in and it would last me all week.
Quaintways.JPG
The reason why a few of us liked going to Chester at that time was because Quaintways would also book groups from further afield than Liverpool. Like the Hollies, the Mindbenders and the Hermits from Manchester, the Rockin’ Berries and the Vikings (later known as the Move) from Birmingham, even Alexis Korner’s Blues Inc would venture up to Chester from time to time from their London base - and, quiet honestly, we liked the change of scenery. Also, an added feature of Quaintways that I personally liked and looked forward to was the food, during the day the venue was essentially a restaurant (as one can see from the above sign) and as such, part of the evening’s entertainment was a buffet. I remember I could buy either a “with buffet” or “without buffet” ticket in order to gain entrance. The stage and the dance area were at the top of the building on the third floor and the entrance / cloakroom / bar / buffet areas were on the same level as the elevated pedestrian walkway known locally as the "Rows" that is such a historical and distinctive feature of that part of Chester that includes Northgate Street.

Over the years Geoff, I got to like the City of Chester so much I ended up working there in the offices of a large insurance company before moving down to my current part of the south of England in 1985.
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Re: Cilla Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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Peter; Thanks for sharing a fascinating glimpse into your teenage years on the Wirral, you mention venues that I have intimate knowledge of, that arouse so many all but forgotten memories.
The Pressmen were a Wallasey based group who specialised in playing Soul classics, rumour has it that Derry Wilkie joined the group on the advice of Brian Epstein, Derry was vastly influenced by Ray Charles and Little Richard. The band was advertised as Derry Wilkie and the Pressmen. The group eventually parted company with Derry and one of the band members Phil McKenzie who formed the group Derry Wilkie and the Others. Aynsley Dunbar also became a member of the PRESSMEN went on to play with famous groups White Snake and John Mayall's Blues Band.
Your detailed description of the Majestic Ballroom and the vivid scene of Earl Preston and the TTs very professional performance was typical of his performances witnessed at the Iron Door. Also the dance floor awash with girl dancers!
Gordon Vickers was responsible for all the events at Quaintways Chester. Gordon now owns the Mill Hotel Chester, the Wall City Jazz Band (Wonder where that name came from) play for Gordon every week.
The first outside booking I secured for Freddie Starr and the Kansas City Five was at the venue on the top floor of Quaintways.I did not witness Freddie and the Bands performance,instead I watched a fantastic performance of the Chris Barber band with Ottilie Paterson on the floor below who happened to be playing on the same night.
Once again thank you for a memorable post .....You are always a hard act to follow!
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Re: Cill Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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You’ve gone and done it again Geoff. By merest of word associations, your mention of seeing the Chris Barber Band has rung a distant bell for me that’s been long silent for the best part of 45 years. And, I’ve just got to write it down somewhere before it submerges back into my unconsciousness.

My tale has not got to do with Chris Barber or Ottilie Patterson for that matter. Rather, it concerns Kenny Ball and in particular his trombone player Johnny Bennett, who has been faithfully alongside Kenny from the very 1958 beginnings of Kenny Ball and his Jazzmen.

Now, I’m almost sure it was the summer of 1967 and a bunch of us decide to have two weeks on the Isle of Man at this holiday camp …
IOM.JPG
For those who don’t already know, the 200 square miles that is the Isle of Man is situated in the Irish Sea more or less at the midway point between the coastlines of England and Northern Ireland. From the Port of Liverpool access to and from the Isle of Man is via a regular daily ferry service of some three hours duration.

For 1960s Britain, this particular holiday camp was typical for the times. Guests being required to stay and sleep in laid-out rows of wooden built Swiss-style chalets similar to this image …
Chalet.JPG
So, we arrive on the island by ferry from Liverpool, get ourselves to the holiday camp and settle in. Already staying in the chalet next door was a man and woman, who as it later turned out were husband and wife. I said I know that man’s face from somewhere because while not exactly to my taste, Kenny Ball and his Jazzmen were still fairly high profile on British TV at the time. I asked around and found out it was Johnny Bennett. He and his wife were staying at the camp for the summer because Kenny Ball and his Jazzmen were playing the Palace Hotel and Casino on the seafront in nearby Douglas for the season.

Now Geoff, what sticks in my mind about the two weeks I spent next door to Johnny Bennett wasn’t the fact of who he was or what he did as a living. It was what he painstakingly did as a hobby to whittle away the daylight hours before he had to go onstage to perform each evening.

I would watch him sitting at a table on the porch of his chalet and, for hour after hour all he did was methodically assemble Airfix model kits of World War II airplanes and battleships like this …
Airfix.JPG
And, he wasn’t doing it in any half-hearted sort of way. After he glued everything together every model got a full paint job. After a while I got talking to him and he invited me inside his chalet. There were models perched everywhere he'd already completed. Eventually, I said to him what was he going to do with all these models come the end of the season, surely it wasn’t going to be possible to take them home. No, he said. Come the end of their engagement he was going to take them along to the children’s ward of the island’s hospital and give them away.

Towards the end of our fortnight stay on the Isle of Man he freely gave us a couple of tickets to watch one of the shows. I think the reason why he did so was because we didn’t ask him for any – like I said, Kenny Ball and his Jazzmen weren’t really our cup-of-tea. However, there is one number I can still recall from the one and only time I ever saw Kenny Ball and his Jazzmen play live.



**************************************************************************************

Another thing Geoff before I forget:

Regarding that black and white TV clip taken inside Birkenhead’s Majestic Ballroom of Earl Preston and TTs and with particular reference to the other vocalist featured CY TUCKER. About a month ago I had the radio on in the background and was half-listening to a BBC Radio 4 program called “The Listening Project” …

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/th ... ng-project

… when I heard someone talking with his granddaughter in that unmistakeable Liverpool accent. I have since found out it was Cy Tucker. Listen again to the brief 3-minute conversation between the two at …

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/th ... n/p00qy0nd

… he didn’t have a very high opinion of John Lennon.

I didn’t know Cy Tucker is still active and something of a Sunday afternoon fixture in THE BIG HOUSE (The Vines) on Lime Street - now there’s a Liverpool landmark I haven’t been inside for a long time …

The Story of Cy Tucker : Old Time Rock 'n' Roll
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Re: Cilla Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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While I've racked my brains, I can't personally recall seeing a young Cilla Black on stage with either of the groups fronted by Rory Storm and Kingsize Taylor, I can remember seeing her with the Big Three.
Perhaps after the epic journey in the Ford motor car visiting venues as far afield as the Isle of Mann starting in Wallasey we were pitched with a wonderful history of groups playing on Merseyside in the 60s, the quest was to try and establish a venue where Peter might have caught a glimpse of Cilla singing with the above mentioned bands.
One other establishment was the Zodiac Club 98 Duke Street, Liverpool. Cilla surely must have happy memories of this club she met her 'Lovely' husband Bobby there, she worked the coffee bar for ages, it was a popular haunt for groups to visit and relax, the management in the shape of George Williams also organised all-night sessions.
Peter you mentioned the 'Big House' on the corner of Lime Street opposite the Adelphi Hotel, this is a grade 1 listed building
the interior is looking shabby, however it still maintains all the original fixtures and fittings, the main room where the groups play, appears to be locked during the day, this I suppose helps to preserve the beautiful interior which remains original and untouched,I have ventured in there a few times to see that old stalwart of the 60s Karl Terry a wonderful showman.
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Re: Cill Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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Cilla at  the ZODIAC.png
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Re: Cill Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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It’s possible Geoff (but I still can’t be sure) because we did do a few all-nighters but, to be honest, I wasn’t all that keen on them. Though, I’m almost certain it was on the Liverpool side where I saw Cilla on-stage with the Big Three. Being that for a time, I used to follow the Big Three around quiet a lot after Brian Griffiths joined. However, I’ll tell you one thing I remember about the all-nighters – and, near all-nighters for that matter - was after, when we were out on the streets of Liverpool in the early hours of the morning – and hungry.

Then, Lime Street Railway Station was near enough open round the clock and there was an all-night kiosk selling tea and warmed-up pies outside the station, I think it was on Skelhorne Street. We would head there if it was raining. While on the Pier Head (not far from James Street Station and the Woodside / Seacombe cross-river ferry) was the corporation bus terminal. Though it wasn’t open all night, there was kiosk there that opened up very early in the morning. There was also a bus drivers & conductors canteen, if it was quiet then we’d be OK in there but, when it started to get busy we’d get kicked out. I used to like that canteen because if you asked nicely they’d do you bacon or a dog roll.
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Re: Cilla Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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Peter; I have experienced the early morning hunger; I do believe that the kiosk on Lime Street was known as the Punch and Judy warmed up pies and mug of tea,another favorite was upstairs Lyons Tea House on the corner of Skelhorne street. Liverpool City Caterers owned the all-night shack at the Pier Head, yet another was Joe's Cafe in Duke Street. Happy Days Peter!
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Re: Cill Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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Calling Geoff Hogarth:

Geoff - re "Cilla": Just in case you don't already know ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-28852517

The TV dramatisation of her early life kicks off next Monday (15 September) at 21:00 hours BST on ITV
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Re: Cill Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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Thank you Peter for the timely reminder; Sheridan Smith is a excellent choice for the part of Cilla.
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Re: Cill Black Talks About The Iron Door Club

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Geoff I've got to be honest; I’ve always been sort of neutral when it comes to Cilla Black. I’ve never especially taken to her but then again, I’ve never taken against her either. Having now watched two of the three chapters of ITV’s Cilla with particular interest because - being ‘round-and-about the Iron Door and the ‘C’ place during the same time period - that’s really the part of the Cilla story I wanted to see how the film handled.

Such as, how the accompanying cast of real-life characters, some no doubt who are still with us, were portrayed. The look, feel, accuracy and authenticity of club and domestic locations that I was familiar with. And, finally, how the vibrancy and sound of the live music came across more than half-a-century later.

Being that you are more nearer to the source than I am here on the outskirts of London, what kind of feedback have you been getting Geoff? Though, reading the online media reviews of Cilla, they have been pleasantly positive – such as THIS ONE written up in the Daily Telegraph …

Having watched the same two broadcasts, I can’t help but go along with the final paragraph of the Telegraph review that goes …

The only moment of irony came with the realisation that the real star of this show isn’t Cilla Black at all but Sheridan Smith, who not only convinced utterly as “Swingin’ Cilla” the helmet-haired Sixties Liverpool rockette, but undertook all the singing duties herself. Sacrilegious as this may be to some, Smith’s rendition of Anyone Who Had a Heart, which closed last night’s episode on a triumphant high, was if anything more impressive than Black’s own recording, her voice darker, bluesier and better suited to contemporary tastes. It could easily be a hit in its own right.

Indeed, Sheridan Smith’s central performance as Cilla Black is something of an all-round tour-de-force. For me, she makes the real-life Cilla Black almost likeable and not as ‘pushy’ as in the past she has often seemed to be.

Anyway, with the aid of computer and cloud storage technology, for those outside the UK who might fancy a glimpse into the musical past of Liverpool then CLICK HERE. While no substitute for the real thing, it’s about as near as one can get to it from this ever increasing distance in time.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note # I’m not a regular Google Drive user but with 30GB free cloud storage available to me, I thought I’d tryout there video player on this occasion. While Google Drive is not particularly Internet Explorer friendly, if the video player won’t load automatically for linked play and the message displayed reads “Could not load the video player. Try reloading the page” then try playing each of the uploaded video clips individually by clicking on the “Open” tab visibly located in the centre at the top of the page. This will open another browser bar window for each of the 9 uploaded video clips to be played singly in turn.
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