Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

OK, I have an interesting/potentially stupid question. It's Interesting to me anyway. It would appear that 4003 Blackstars are more desirable/collectable than the 4003 Shadow. I don't know why that is. Wasn't there only approx. 60 Shadows manufactured as compared to 200 Blackstars? That alone would lead me to believe the Shadows are more rare hence more collectable.

The Blackstar has a painted maple fretboard and sounds brighter than my Shadow but my Shadow is no slouch in the growl department. As a matter of fact, it one of the more growly Rickenbackers in my arsenal.

Any opinions?? Maybe I should do a side by side tone comparison on You Tube like the one I did on the 4003 and 4004??

Sepp

Kopfjaeger wrote:It would appear that 4003 Blackstars are more desirable/collectable than the 4003 Shadow. I don't know why that is.

Just wondering what makes you say that? I'd take a Shadow over a Blackstar any day. Such a great combination of features and some of the thinnest Rick necks ever produced.

I think rare does not equal collectability. The Chris Squire basses seems to command higher prices than Blackstars (though one without the signed pick guard sold for ~$2850 recently on the 'Bay) and there were a 1000 or so of those (CS) made. Coolness factor, supply/demand etc all come into play.

sloop_john_b wrote:

Kopfjaeger wrote:It would appear that 4003 Blackstars are more desirable/collectable than the 4003 Shadow. I don't know why that is.

Just wondering what makes you say that? I'd take a Shadow over a Blackstar any day. Such a great combination of features and some of the thinnest Rick necks ever produced.

John,

I love my Shadow and I enjoy playing it a bit more than my Blackstar, for all the reasons you mentioned as well its tone. You never see a Blackstar selling on the open market, unlike Shadows and when Blackstars sell, they sell for more than a Shadow. My point was, it seems like the Shadow is very under rated as a performer as well as a potential investment piece.

Sepp

I'd take either one or both if I could. I dig them both equally. Neck thickness is not an issue to me.

Kopfjaeger wrote:

sloop_john_b wrote:

Kopfjaeger wrote:It would appear that 4003 Blackstars are more desirable/collectable than the 4003 Shadow. I don't know why that is.

Just wondering what makes you say that? I'd take a Shadow over a Blackstar any day. Such a great combination of features and some of the thinnest Rick necks ever produced.

John,

I love my Shadow and I enjoy playing it a bit more than my Blackstar, for all the reasons you mentioned as well its tone. You never see a Blackstar selling on the open market, unlike Shadows and when Blackstars sell, they sell for more than a Shadow. My point was, it seems like the Shadow is very under rated as a performer as well as a potential investment piece.

Sepp

Y'know, I didn't think of it, but you're right, the Blackstars do command a higher price. I wonder if the COA and having a "1 of ___" is more attractive to collectors? All we know about Shadows is that there were possibly around 50 or 60 or 40 produced and the possibly maybe were done for the opening of Guitar Center's 40th or 60th or 50th store.

rickenbrother wrote:Neck thickness is not an issue to me.

No doubt! IIRC my 4003 has the "girthiest" neck in John A's database.

All I know is I'd love to have either one, but I actually prefer the shadow...

I did snag both the Shadow as well as the Blackstar off of members on this forum. Neither was posted for sale but with a little prodding, both found a home here with me! I have seen Shadows for sale on ebay, two I think in the past 6 months. Blackstars, nope. I've only seen others in fotos here on this forum. I saw my first Tuxedo ever for sale on eBay!! Absolutely gorgeous! No rednecks as of yet. Now those are two rare beasts!

The Chris Squire model is often for sale on eBay and seems to commands a nice price.

My Blackstar and it's COA are separated. Paul W. did help with getting me a letter on RIC letterhead signifying the serial number on my jackplate is a legitimate Blackstar. I just had to make a follow up call to Rich C. at RIC and I got the letter without delay! will the lack of a COA decrease the value of my Blackstar when it comes time to move on? I'm not worried about that because that day is not even on the horizon!

Sepp

Kopfjaeger wrote:will the lack of a COA decrease the value of my Blackstar when it comes time to move on? I'm not worried about that because that day is not even on the horizon!

Sepp

I say no. Vintage Guitar Mag. price guide tends to rate COA at $100.

chrisdski wrote:

Kopfjaeger wrote:will the lack of a COA decrease the value of my Blackstar when it comes time to move on? I'm not worried about that because that day is not even on the horizon!

Sepp

I say no. Vintage Guitar Mag. price guide tends to rate COA at $100.

Chris,

Ah, cool! Thanks for the info!

Sepp

Not to say this is typical, but I bought my near mint used Shadow from a Forumite for $300 more than my near-mint used Blackstar (from another Forumite). Yeah, the market is interesting. Yes, the Shadow should be more rare, but I'm not certain how many were made. Common knowledge(?) seems to settle on 50 or 60 and it has something to do with Guitar Center. But John Hall suggested I check with Guitar Center to learn what the celebration was all about. He couldn't recall the specifics.

Supposedly, the limited run of Blackstars was 200, but it is not clear if they ever sold that many. As we are not privy to RIC's records (and have no right to them), we can only guess at the number. Anyone can state they are going to make only 200 in a limited run, but it's not likely they made all 200 and then marketed them. They would likely have taken orders and made enough to fill. Another factor is that of the four "specials" (Blackstar, Redneck, Tuxedo, and Shadow), only the Blackstar appeared on a RIC pricelist, suggesting that maybe they had some made in anticipation of orders never received. They may have included it in the pricelist to remind dealers that it was still available. Who knows?

Paul,

Interesting! I've always heard the Blackstar number was 200 but I heard sometimes 190 and as high as 210 or so. There is a relatively small sampling of them listed here, although it's most likely the most comprehensive list you will find anywhere, publicly, of course. I'll take a gander to see what the highest number is listed. I know Jami has had several pas through his hands. Mine came from his hoard! Maybe he has recorded the highest number he has had pass through his hands. As long as RIC numbered them sequentially, I guess we can deduce they made at least the highest number we can document. Mine is #17 (Aug. 08) so I'm not really helping to figure out how many were produced.

Those that own Shadows seem to appreciate them and know what gems they have. Like I've said before, mine has monster tone and I'd be hard pressed to let it go.

Sepp

To second the observation of my fellow Mainer, if the number made was the sole factor, the Tux basses would be more sought after than the Blackstar and the CS. Or the 4005 for that matter.... That's far from the case.

(I've owned all four. As a player, I liked the Blackstar best.)

Derek,

What about the Blackstar did you like best? What put it above the others you mentioned? When I purchased my Blackstar from Jamie he had two or three others and he said he had others in better condition but this one had the best action and played better than his others. I know not all instruments of the same type or vintage stand on equal footing. Some have certain intangibles that their brethren can't match or just don't live up to.

For me the Blackstar is very high on the cool factor! I get the most compliments on the way it looks. Almost like there is some sort of "Holt Grail" aura around it! It does have a great sound and it is a joy to play.

Sepp