Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Hi folks, heavily against my financial judgement I pulled the trigger on a brand new 4004 a few weeks ago - I just couldn't resist it in the end and you only live once etc. Unfortunately, I appear to having some issues and was hoping to gain some advice and wisdom from you guys. I discovered pretty quickly I was getting a fair amount of fret buzz - particularly bad on the D string. I know Rick's are generally supposed to be set up with almost straight necks, so I checked the relief using the various suggested methods and sure enough it does appear to be almost straight with only a slight touch of relief as expected. So, I guessed a slight bridge adjustment was in order and attempted to raise the saddles. However in order to eliminate the buzz I had to raise them a lot, about three full turns of the allen key. Action wise, it still seems ok, measuring around the last and twelfth frets it's pretty much the same as my 4003 - but it does look 'odd' and a lot higher than in any other pictures I've seen of a 4004, so I'm now unsure if that's 'ok' so to speak. I've attached a quick picture below to demonstrate.
Next was the more worrying problem, given that I'd raised the strings so much I thought I'd best give the pickup height a tweak and see how it played from there. The treble sides adjusted as expected, with the centre screw raising/lowering the pickup, however the bass sides just won't budge. The pickups raise very slightly if at all but then the screw simply 'screws out' leaving the pickup in the same position Naturally, I'm pretty concerned now and was hoping to get some advice on whether these issues are just a case of me messing with things I don't really know enough about I guess one answer is certainly to take it to a decent tech to have a look over, but given the fact that I could barely afford it in the first place the thought of having to spend another 40 quid or so to get a brand new bass playable (especially one at that price point!) is making me feel a little ill! Any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated!

Something's seriously wrong here- no way the saddles should need to be like this. Since it's a new instrument, you should submit it for warranty repair.

Those saddles are way too high. That's a Schaller bridge, correct? Those bridges have a removable base plate, which is not installed on your bass. I don't know if the 4004 was supposed to have that base plate, but the Schaller bridges on my 2030 and 2050 basses do have it.

Where did you buy the bass from Chris?

Are you in the UK?

Oh dear Yes it's a schaller as far as I'm aware. I got it from Guitar Guitar in Glasgow, guessing I best get in touch with them and see about taking back into the store?

Yes, if it's bought new, rather than wrack your brain trying to fix it yourself take advantage of the warranty provided!

I can think of a number of things that could be wrong, with how little information we really have to go off of with just this photo, but I would be happier to see it taken care of for you per the warranty than start you worrying about different possible issues yet.

Whoa! That looks like tail lift in reverse! Congrats on the new purchase,hopefully you get it corrected or refunded/replaced soon!

Agreed.

As mentioned, just follow John's advice. ESPECIALLY if it is BRAND SPANKING NEW.

I've been having an issue with my new 4004cii but NOTHING like you have there.

I understand your frustration, I really do. I tried everything I could think of to get my new baby working the way I wanted. For the LIFE of me, I couldn't get the neck to just stay straight. MY issue was that even though I got mine from a RIC DEALER, it was technically second hand. Even though it was never played it had a previous owner, however slight the amount of time. For 5 months the dealer said it would settle down, just keep adjusting it. But every week, the action would LIFT after getting it set and would drive me nuts.

Funds are tight here on this end too but I didn't want to send it away either. I thought it had to be SOMETHING simple, because I was able to get it set up nicely each time it had to be a minor issue. But the truss rod on the E/A string would side would MAX OUT while the D/G side was barely tight. I gave in and managed to get a luthier to look at it. I didn't want to take a chance of breaking anything.

It SEEMS, at this point in time, to be doing much better. Upon a quick inspection, nothing MAJOR was found. The nut needed adjusting. But upon further inspection, wood shavings were found INSIDE the threads of the nut on the rods, preventing them from really being tightened correctly. I sure didn't want to force it when I was trying them. They were cleaned out, and the truss rod adjustments now had a LOT more room to move! The neck is now set with some REALLY nice low action, and for two days now, has remained stable. I've got my eyes, fingers, arms and legs crossed that it was something as simple as that. In a MILLION YEARS, I'd never think of something like sawdust in the threads.

The moral to the story, TAKE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL or send it back.

I hope you get it all sorted out. I've had over 40 RICS during the years, and this darn 4004cii gets more compliments than ANY of my other basses. INCLUDING my ALEMBIC. They truly are worth the effort/wait of getting one. Be patient, follow the procedures and you will be rewarded with a very special bass. Keep us posted!

Tony,

I'm at that point now with my 4004Cii. I'm dropping it off with Chris at PotR on Thursday. While the neck seems to be holding it's straightness (It's been in a very humidity stable environment for the past 3 months), when I take all the relief out of the neck, the A string buzzes in and around the first three frets. It drives me nuts!! I loosen the truss rod a bit to give it a slight bow and it goes away but now my action is not quite as low as I'd like.

I've done just about everything I can do so now it's off to a professional for his assessment. It's a minor issue but it bothers me. I kinda think the A string nut slot may be cut a little too deep.

I also have another reason for going to visit Chris. He, he, he, he!

Sepp

Kopfjaeger wrote:Tony,

I'm at that point now with my 4004Cii. I'm dropping it off with Chris at PotR on Thursday. While the neck seems to be holding it's straightness (It's been in a very humidity stable environment for the past 3 months), when I take all the relief out of the neck, the A string buzzes in and around the first three frets. It drives me nuts!! I loosen the truss rod a bit to give it a slight bow and it goes away but now my action is not quite as low as I'd like.

I've done just about everything I can do so now it's off to a professional for his assessment. It's a minor issue but it bothers me. I kinda think the A string nut slot may be cut a little too deep.

I also have another reason for going to visit Chris. He, he, he, he!

Sepp

Hey Sepp,

My 4004Cii Blueburst did the VERY SAME THING! EXACTLY! Joey was the one who showed me how to RESET THE NECK.
WE did that, kept the stock strings on the thing, and it NEVER went out again after it was stable. It droves me nuts too. I should have kept that bass and had it converted fretless. Oh well, live and learn.

Chris is a good man. He's been known to fix some things others couldn't. I'm VERY HAPPY he's about 1500 miles away from my place, otherwise I'd get into a LOT of trouble myself!
Enjoy the visit, tell Chris I said hello!

Tony,

I'll tell Chris you said hello! I'm screwed, it's my first trip to his shop but he's only 2 hours. That could be very bad!

Joey gave me some advice on my 4004. I tried taking the tension off and the strings and starting from scratch. Now the A/C has been on and the house is sealed up from the humidity of the New Jersey summer, it has been very stable. I worry when I shut down the A/C and the windows are open during the fall. I was thinking maybe the ebony used on the fretboard was causing it but that slab of wood should be like granite . We'll see what Chris says. The good thing is he remembers my bass. He said he saw it at the factory when he was there.

Sepp

To me, most of these 4004Cii issues are sort of like the complaints that used to pop up about the dead sounding E string on the 4003. I offer to help, hands on, even plenty of guys in So Cal from both forums about that E string issue. Tony is the only guy that ever took me up on an offer.
I can only see the bridge in the OP's post, nor can I check out his 4004 in person. I also agree that The Dude should not hesitate and follow John Hall's advice about warranty repair.

johnhall wrote:Something's seriously wrong here- no way the saddles should need to be like this. Since it's a new instrument, you should submit it for warranty repair.

The man himself has spoken. Dont hesitate. Return it.

Well I emailed the store explaining the situation and arranged to bring it back in the other day, where their tech/manager had a look over it. I'm not completely convinced how much things were remedied, and I can't say I'm feeling much better about it. Here's my account of what happened - I apologise in advance if it seems a little long winded.

I showed him the bass and explained the issues I'd had with the fret buzz and pickup height, how I'd had to raise the saddles unusually high (I'd dropped them roughly back to 'normal' before I went to demonstrate the buzz) and been informed by you good folks that something was definitely up. Initially when I said the neck was 'almost straight' he told me that was wrong and that neck's should never be that straight. I pointed out that I was confident Rick's should in fact be almost straight based on the various sources I'd read (including the manual), he didn't appear to believe me/accept what I was saying but then checked the relief and declared that it seemed fine (pretty confusing, since it was almost straight, but I let it slide as perhaps it was just miscommunication between us and as long as he accepted the neck was ok as is.)

Regarding the pickup height, he told me that in fact those pickups were not intended to be adjusted, they were at a pre-set height using a foam back and that the centre screw was merely holding the pickup into the wood (he removed the bridge pickup to demonstrate), and that there was only a millimetre or two's movement at best. I found this a little strange as I've never heard of a pickup that couldn't be adjusted to suit the players preferred action/pickup balance etc. Is this true in any way shape or form? Did I misinterpret what he meant (although I'm not sure how else it could be taken)?

Back to the fret buzz: sure enough it's buzzing like crazy. He raised the D-string saddle slightly to of course, no avail. He then claimed that the string gauge seemed to be unusual - that the D seemed to belong to a light gauge set. I told him that as far as I'm aware, stock Rick strings are a custom gauge, with a 'light' A+D (I couldn't recall exactly off the top of my head). He asked if I'd mind if he tried swapping in a standard D string - I didn't really see what difference that would make but thought what the heck, can't do any harm and might as well let him cover all bases (no pun intended ). So he got a set of standard Elites and swapped the string - no effect, obviously, still buzzing like crazy. He then declared that it had to be the relief (even though apparently it was fine to start with?) and gave the truss rods a tweak. This seemed to cure it - no more buzz. He said would I like to take the bass away and see how I got on from there, I was cutting it a little fine to make it to work on time so I agreed.

Fast forward a couple of days before I could actually get the chance to look at the bass again and straight away I realize I'm glad he let me keep the full set of Elites - as of course I forgot to get the stock D string back so the original strings are now useless (facepalm). Anyway, the fret buzz is pretty much cured (bar a little when 'digging in') but the relief on the neck is now as you would expect it to be on any other bass i.e. when holding down the first and last fret there's a credit card sized gap at the 7th fret. Is this an acceptable cure? Or should the neck definitely be able to be set straighter than this?

Obviously, I now had to re-string the bass with the Elites, and after doing so I knew with the all truss rod/saddle/string adjustment my intonation would likely be out. Well, it was out all right, by a country mile! I had to shift all the saddles back considerably to get it back in tune, to the point where there's actually not a lot more adjustment in the E-string and I'm now finding myself looking at it (rightly or wrongly) with the same suspicious eye I viewed the saddle height with. I've included a pic of it as before.

I must say that all in - owning this bass has been nothing but a severe headache so far There are also a few other things I'm not entirely satisfied about, like some poor finishing around the actual pickup cavities where it seems like it's been damaged when the pickups were originally installed. Not obvious from a distance but still noticeable up close. The bottom strap button is also screwed in at slight angle. Not perhaps 'major' issues but I feel like considering the bass cost me over £2000, I should be able to expect more. As I said I was pushing it to afford the bass in the first place but I figured that the joy it would bring me would be worth it since things haven't exactly been going my way this year - but it's ended up quite the opposite

Here are some snaps of my current worries (I apologise for the space they might take up, I had to edit/resize them quickly), again any further advice or comments warmly appreciated:

Saddle height as it is now:

Post-intonation:

Strap button:

Neck pickup left and right:


Bridge pickup left and right:

Chris,

I edited your post SLIGHTLY. I broke it into paragraphs (I hope you don't mind the placement, if you do...PM me and I'll edit as necessary). It was VERY difficult to read all jumbled up into one paragraph. My eyes kept wandering. I normally wouldn't do this but I thought, IMHO, it would just be easier for old folks like me to read and responding to it easier.

I will reiterate what John Hall, the of Rickenbacker said to you earlier in this post. Assuming this is a brand new bass purchased from a RIC DEALER, just bring it back.

I understand the frustration, I really do. Both of my 4004cii's had an adjustment issue when new. I took into account it was manufactured in relatively dry climate, then shipped to a dealer in a frozen winter climate, then shipped to me in a Sub-tropical, humid climate. The wood adjusting to the temperature & humidity each time.

I know it can try your patience, but if you hang tight, you will be rewarded with a FANTASTIC, VERSATILE bass that you will use for years to come.