Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

No matter if we traditional guitarists like it or not, the future of music is computer devices like the iPad. I'm forming a new band, Merge, with some very talented long time friends and the iPad is integral to how we will do this. I'm a latecomer to the iPad (buying one very soon) and I'm looking for advice on input devices. In my latest band Merge, the bassist has forgone the bass guitar for a keyboard & iPad. He is an electro-acoustic music professor and Mac genius though he is a talented bassist & producer. Our drummer is versed in jazz, rock & hip hop and is incorporating triggers and iPad. The goal of the band is to take my gritty raw blues/soul style & new tech so we can make music that is varied but formost accessible yet new. I have not yet seen guitarists integrate the iPad without loosing the soul of a guitar. I'm wondering what input devices are best for guitar. I'd most like to run through my iso speaker & have that go to the iPad so I still have real tube amp & Ric sound but manipulate/sample/loop it rather than just go to the iPad directly but I want also to be able to control the thing easily.

Great apps we are currently using are samplr & animoog.

I find the standard audio out of the Ipad terrible. Awful sound. But through a Bluetooth audio interface ($29 at the Apple Store) it is much better. Night and day to my ears. Plus you can have the Ipad up to 30 feet from the amp/sound board. Lately I use mine mostly with a Mackie Dl1608 mixer. In this function, it is strictly a controller, no audio. However, by also using the Bluetooth interface into the mixer, i can use the Moog app and control the band mix, switching between apps.

For guitar, i only have an Irig. I don't use the Ipad as an effects unit, because I don't like the tones I have heard so far, but it works very well with Garage Band to sketch out ideas. I think the Ipad would work bestvasca controller for an effects unit hat has it's own audio processor. Using it to control the DL1608's on board reverb and delay, it works very well.

Playing live, I have the Iklip on a straight mike stand sitting just below a Behringer B205 mini monitor. Everything is handy for mixing or Mooging, and it all weighs very little.

Apogee Jam is the absolute best iOS-suitable interface I know of.

So where do I plug my LDS 2126 cabinet in to the iPAd, along with my MXR Analog Chorus, Big Bass Muff π and Tone Hammer 500? Can I use the iPad to control the tone controls on the amp, perhaps providing a bit of hi-pass filtering along the way to control the massive bottom end capable between the amp and the LDS cabinet? What App would do that? Or, should I just get an App that will let me eliminate the amp and speaker altogether and go straight into the PA mixer? Can that be balanced and also give me multiple monitor mix returns through headphones or small monitor wedges.

Oh yeah, Can drinks and deserts be ordered through the iPad to the bar during the set so they are ready at breaktime?

I'll check out the Apogee, I can get a discount on them through my friend.

jps wrote:Or, should I just get an App that will let me eliminate the amp and speaker altogether and go straight into the PA mixer? Can that be balanced and also give me multiple monitor mix returns through headphones or small monitor wedges.

Apple Logic Is the DAW I've used to record for several years and it has a nice variety of amp models. I still prefer real tubes because I love tube compression so I record my Orange AD30 through the iso cab into Logic. The speaker cabs & virtual mics can really sweeten things up. It also has easily tailored effects but I still need a decent output device to use it live. I feed mine through the PA currently.

We're looking into creating our own apps but the learning curve is a bit steep. Once we get going we will be able to build whatever apps we need. There is an open source version of Max that we're looking into. Max MSP might also be able to do that stuff if you have a multi channel output device and configure it correctly. You can hook up an arduino board to that & use their open source code to make even a stylophone into a midi device.

jps wrote:Or, should I just get an App that will let me eliminate the amp and speaker altogether and go straight into the PA mixer? Can that be balanced and also give me multiple monitor mix returns through headphones or small monitor wedges.

You better check out the DL1608. Does all this, plus the HPF, plus both parametric and graphic EQ. Also 6 monitor outs with 2 main outs. You can connect up to 10 ipads by local wifi as well as one in the dock. You can set locks on each ipad so, for example, 6 ipads can each control one monitor mix, one can be carried around the room by the sound man, one in the dock can record the skow and provide tunes in between sets. In theory, every band member could control their own monitor mix.

Yes you could run the bass straight into the PA and add any eq you can think of plus reverb or delay. You could configure one monitor send to a loop and return to another channel ( it has 16 ins, each with an Onyx preamp).

So... Yes you could do most of that! Then you can save each channel as a preset, the whole mix as a snapshot, and combine several snapshots into a show.

It's pretty flexible, as long as you have at least 1 Ipad.

jps wrote:Oh yeah, Can drinks and deserts be ordered through the iPad to the bar during the set so they are ready at breaktime?

If the establishment has a wifi ordering system and they let you on it... why not?

I did read up a bit on the DL1608, pretty amazing little machine, but IIRC, it did not have separate FX sends and returns, right? You are limited to using the internal effects, I think.

I'll go read the info again, I am home sick so I have time to read while waiting for my symptoms to go away!

jps wrote:I did read up a bit on the DL1608, pretty amazing little machine, but IIRC, it did not have separate FX sends and returns, right? You are limited to using the internal effects, I think.

No sends and returns, correct. What I did was to use one of the monitor sends, configure it pre- fader, set a mix of channels and send to a processor, then the out from the processor to one of the free channel ins and blended that signal.

It requires a bit of re- thinking from an analog desk, but it is worth it. I've had mine since Christmas and use it exclusively for all my live and studio mixing needs. It is a working monster and probably the most significant addition to my gear in quite a while.

For example, once you set the analog input gains, you never need to touch the mixer again. So for us it becomes the stage box, no snake needed. Sound man mixes from anywhere in the room (I bought a $30 wireless router to set up a minimix network) and my bandmates and I adjust our own monitor mixes from mic stand mounted Ipads. More than enough inputs for us, including miking up the drum kit and congas. After everyones instrument and vox are set up, we have enough ins left over for a loop and a small brass section...

I'm really diggin this little box.

OMG, the DL1608 is just what we'll need. Thanks for the find!

cassius987 wrote:Apogee Jam is the absolute best iOS-suitable interface I know of.

Another vote for the Apogee Jam, which has the added advantage that it comes with both an iPad/iPhone cable and a regular USB cable to use it as an input for a Mac.

Looks like Behringer will have one available soon as well:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/iX16.aspx

It's no wonder I still have a bass, cable, and amp.....