Interesting comparative bass tone-atomy observation

[cassius987]

For a long time I've been puzzled by the Jazz Bass. Unlike the P Bass, 4001 and 4003, I don't like it's natural tone with flat EQ settings. Just not my cuppa. But I have loved the tone many players (famous and not so famous) have gotten with their Jazz Basses. Generally I can tell with a quick listen they are not running a flat EQ, and there might be some other effects in there as well. I can't recall hearing a Jazz Bass being played, loving the tone and thinking, "That EQ is definitely set flat," or "That sounds just like the Jazz Bass I plugged in at GC." It's generally the opposite, with a big serving of bass EQ added in turning the nasal sound into an articulate thunder. I kept wondering, "What is the deal? I love this guy's tone but I generally don't like the 'natural' Jazz Bass palette of sounds."

On the other hand with the aforementioned P Bass and Ric not only am I more content not to mess with EQ as much, preferring their "natural" voices in a mix, but I'd go so far as to say I actually think these basses just don't get along with EQ as well as the Jazz. The same thing that makes their voice so good from the outset actually muddies things up when you try to use a traditional bass guitar EQ approach to these instruments. There is a low-range grunt in them that just doesn't want to go away, and if you slather a bunch of other things on top it doesn't always sound right to my ears.

I have recently been playing a lot with my Roscoe Beck V, which is essentially a 60s style Jazz when it's in single coil mode, and that seems to have validated a lot my growing assumptions about the Jazz tone. In "Jazz Bass mode", it really benefits from a healthy dose of low EQ to bring in that thunder. Try the same EQ approach with one of my Rics and it's like a wall of mud. Instead, I think the Ric likes a little bit of high mid boost and just a gentle "nudge" with the low end.

Anyone else have similar conclusions, or am I just totally nuts? I guess it all breaks down to what your ears like. Still, let me know what you think.

[weemac]

Err, yes!

Eden.

[sloop_john_b]

Yes, I absolutely agree with everything you said!

I gigged with a Jazz for a while some years back when my 4003 was out of commission and I didn't want to bring vintage pieces out. It has old thumpy GHS flatwounds on it, and even then, it needed a healthy dose of bass boost and treble cut to get it where I wanted it.

I have had some really nice J's over the years, including an '82 Fullerton and a Nash, but they always seemed to really be lacking live. It was as if I didn't have a D string! Something in the mids, I guess?

My only Jazz now has a Audere preamp which gives it a kick in the mids, and everywhere else for that matter! If it was lighter I'd be playing it out all the time.

All hail the mighty P.

[antipodean]

There are a lot of variables at play here, from strings through amps and eq to technique that all impact on sound. I find that my J-bass sounds rather "nasal" with eq flat through any of my rigs (Vox AC-50, GK 200MB, SWR Redhead), but a friend of mine gets the most incredible ultra-smooth bottom-end from his MIM J-bass through a '70s Bassman and Ampeg 4X10, using D'addario XLs, and he's not an eq-tweaker. It's one of life's mysteries....

[rickenbrother]

Joshua, I agree with everything you said. Besides the fact that I can't comfortably play the skinny nut end of the neck and don't like the taper of the J-bass necks, I ca never easily dial in a tone that I'm happy with. I hear others getting great tone out of them, but J-basses and me just don't get along, I guess.
I tried the Fender reissue of the '74 Jazz Bass. The neck was skinnier that most J-basses I've played. I had a hard time playing it. I'd rather a chunky neck any day.

[cassius987]

I have to say, now that I've "embraced the EQ" I could see making a Jazz work (I'll stick with my Roscoe Beck for now though). I'm definitely not dissing them. But I'm glad to hear I'm not alone!

[Badanovski]

I like scouped mids. So EQ is a must. I've never liked the sound of any bass with the EQ flat. Not through an amp or into the board be it live or recording. I guess the one exception would be the Alembic I tried once but that did have healthy EQ on board!! I must be the oddball.

[woodyng]

I have not had a lot of luck or love for the Fenders i've had over the years! I have a non Fender J bass now that sounds great, but i am not crazy about the upper neck feel. I don't really find i have to tweak my amp settings that much when i change from it to my Ricks. My rig consists of 2 12" with tweeters turned off, so that might be a factor . I tend to run my amp settings flat for the most part,

[sloop_john_b]

Joshua, I agree with everything you said. Besides the fact that I can't comfortably play the skinny nut end of the neck and don't like the taper of the J-bass necks, I ca never easily dial in a tone that I'm happy with. I hear others getting great tone out of them, but J-basses and me just don't get along, I guess.
I tried the Fender reissue of the '74 Jazz Bass. The neck was skinnier that most J-basses I've played. I had a hard time playing it. I'd rather a chunky neck any day.

Bummer that you didn't wind up with the '75 at the Murderbarn - that was a real winner!

[FretlessOnly]

It was as if I didn't have a D string! Something in the mids, I guess?

My only Jazz now has a Audere preamp which gives it a kick in the mids, and everywhere else for that matter!

Interesting what you say about the D string. I have a '97 CIJ Jazz FL that had a real output problem with the D string. My Alesis compressor has a nice long row of LEDs for gain and gain reduction, so I could see a major difference in the lack of output from the D string on both PUs. I tried messing with the bridge and setup issues, and finally ended up replacing the PUs with DiMarzio DP 147/148 and the issue was still there. I then went with the DP 123 adjustable pole pickups and I've been able to even out the outputs perfectly. THe only problem was that these pickups are hot and I had an Audere in there that I had to remove because everything was overdriven despite any attempts at cooling off the preamp.

Now I am able to get great tone and even string output (including a killer low end and good cutting mids) and I'm using LaBella DTB rounds. While I like flats, on the Jazz FL they lacked, well, everything.

[aceonbass]

I'm currently running the EQ on my GK pre flat,and getting all the tone I need out of the controls on my Ricks, as well as other basses. The key to making this work well for me has been making sure the volume on my pre is a little louder than necessary, then turning down the volume on my basses a bit to leave me some extra volume in reserve. I've found the wiring to be very important here too. My two active basses, a MM bongo and 4004Cii five string conversion with an Audere pre, have so wide of a tonal palate that I can still leave my pre flat.

[cheyenne]

Pickup placement. A jazz basses neck pickup is placed to close to the sweet spot to deliver the thunder a rick neck pickup can.. Both a jazz and a 4003 have single coil pickups but are located in very different positions. The neck pickup on a 4003, being so close to the fingerboard picks up an ambiance a jazz can't.

[rickenbrother]

Joshua, I agree with everything you said. Besides the fact that I can't comfortably play the skinny nut end of the neck and don't like the taper of the J-bass necks, I ca never easily dial in a tone that I'm happy with. I hear others getting great tone out of them, but J-basses and me just don't get along, I guess.
I tried the Fender reissue of the '74 Jazz Bass. The neck was skinnier that most J-basses I've played. I had a hard time playing it. I'd rather a chunky neck any day.

Bummer that you didn't wind up with the '75 at the Murderbarn - that was a real winner!

That's okay. After the murderbarn card reader wouldn't work and almost getting eaten by the murderbarn dogs to try the card reader in their house. I'm normally not afraid of any dogs, but that particular time, I thought my jewels and other parts were going to be their lunch. Maybe that's how it got the murderbarn name. The money was used towards my very much preferred '05 4004Cii Blueburst. It's neck feels like I had RIC customize it to my left hand. Thunderous tone like no other.

I like scouped mids. So EQ is a must. I've never liked the sound of any bass with the EQ flat. Not through an amp or into the board be it live or recording. I guess the one exception would be the Alembic I tried once but that did have healthy EQ on board!! I must be the oddball.

In my younger days I used to scoop the mids on my bass amp eq. When I realized doing that kills the growl of a bass guitar and especially kills the tone of a fretless bass guitar, I stopped doing that.