My 2010 330-12 JG looks terrible

[steverok]

Hi everyone, it's been quite awhile since I have posted here, although I do read this board from time to time. I purchased a new 330-12 JetGlo in 2010, and last year, I noticed it started looking very smudgy all over, but in an unusually bad way. It's like a grey haze all over the finish, and when I try to clean it, it reveals what appears to be some irregularites in the lacquer, almost like spots. It looked beautiful when I got it, and now it looks horrible. I have two other JG guitars, and they both look gorgeous without cleaning. Did Ric change the JG finish, and have there been any problems with it in recent years ? I'm so sad ...

[geckoman1220]

Hi, I won't be of much help, but I too am experiencing a grey-ish haze on my Jet Glo if i dont clean it often, which i dont so it usually always has the haze. but the way i get rid of it, is with the RIC cleaning cloth, clean it with an automotive cleaner wax. the meguiar's in the spray bottle. itll take it off and stay clean for a few weeks, till it comes back.

[Medicus1963]

Hi Steve,
Pictures would help to solve the problem !

peter

[Hotzenplotz]

What are the 3rd and 4th digits of the serial #?

EG:

1023789

Rickenbacker changed to UV cured conversion varnish in the 19th week of 2010.

So it is important to know what kind of varnish it is.

Actually I bet it is made before the 19th week...

[jingle_jangle]

Two issues: The RIC polishing cloth, though it is very soft, chemically-treated flannel, will still scratch the old conversion varnish if you rub hard enough. The cloth is made to polish and remove dust, but it does reatain dust, and dust itself will scratch the old CV, too. This shows up most on darker colors like MID and JG. Meguiar's detailing spray is not a good way to treat it, as it reduces to a fine powder that is also slightly abrasive to the old soft CV. It's an automotive product, made for much harder finishes.

I can't tell without photographs exactly what's going on, but if the CV is retaining its integrity ex-factory, then it would have to do with your maintenance regimen.

You might refer to my thread on the care and feeding of Rick finishes, which I published here in August of 2006:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=255794&p=255794&hi ... sh#p255794

This was, of course, written with CV in mind, but the products also work well on the new UV-cured polyester varnish.

[Ric_MEL]

.. so as my 330/12 JG has a serial # of 10 20 ( and looks fine )

it is the 20th week.. and has a UV cured finish.. which is. a harder finish ? than previous finishes

I've done nothing but occasional / light dust cleaning with a cotton baby diaper - no cleaning solutions.

I do have some Scratch Doctor that I used on an older Midnight 620/12 that has since been sold. Worked wonderfully on a guitar that was pretty dull and had finish scuffing..

As the referenced care thread was written in 2006. . .. all still applies to UV Cured finishes ?

tnx! Mark

[Hotzenplotz]

IMHO the actual UV cured finish is the best finish ever. It is nothing more than the actual modern car finish. Bullet proof, compared to others.
Let's see how it will work on the long run.
- Until yet my 2010 MID does not develop the typical, thin whisker cracks starting at the soundhole and neck joint.
You can use all good car care products - beware of the very abrasive ones of course.

Long time ago I read a contribution from John Hall. IIRC he suggested a 50:50 mix of hard wax sealer (not polish) and a cotton cloth. Apply it in small circles until you see very small pearls remaining from that mixture.
(sorry for my english, it is hard to desribe it in a foreign language)
You also can feel a change when the application was done enough. The remaining mixture You can wipe away with another dry cotton cloth.

( For all steps I use fresh pieces of an old t-shirt for that - without the seams of course).

All this should be done with no force.

Done once a year my guitar still is looking like new - although my sweat can be very aggressive.

If this is not working enough a soft, not too abrasive car polish can be used as a first refresh. No fear, even the old finishes are not harmed by that if done carefully.

[jingle_jangle]

Hmmm. I looked for that post by JH and could not find it...but he recommends 50//50 of "hard wax sealer" and what?

Not sure what "hard wax sealer" is...do you have a brand recommendation?

All hard paste waxes I know of are variations on the old formula of carnauba, beeswax, paraffin or any combination thereof, with varying amounts of a petroleum distillate or turps, and other additives as a vehicle to ease application. This stuff is fine, but the petroleum or solvent will always strip the previous coat of wax, presumably to avoid the dreaded "waxy yellow build-up".

The Zymol products, paste and cleaner-wax, are waterborne and can be built up in layers as referenced in the old thread, for a really deep shine.

The UV-cured polyester benefits from the same care but is MUCH harder than the old CV, meaning that it's unlikely that it will surface-dull, but chips and scratches are tough for an amateur to repair invisibly, and any buffing must be done with a machine buffing wheel charged with a more aggressive compound than before.

Sascha, I know of no cars that use UV-cured polyester varnish as a finish. Auto finishes these days are typically solvent-borne urethane or waterborne acrylic latex color coats with a top clearcoat of either catalyzing urethane or waterborne varnish. The waterborne ones have a longevity problem and show sunburn and peeling, usually on the horizontal surfaces like hood, trunk, and top.

[Hotzenplotz]

Ooops!

Yes, a 50:50 mix of water and water based hard wax coat. Can not edit anymore...

I'm sorry.

I use this:
http://www.sonax.com/Car-Care/Products/ ... liquid-wax

[Hotzenplotz]

Here is a comment from John Hall, last posting in the thread. It is not the one I meant but the content is the same:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8560&hilit=+wax+polish

In the US You use e.g. turtle wax. This sonax stuff is more or less the same, AFAIK.

[jingle_jangle]

He mentions Turtle Liquid Wax (their product #123), and although he says then (2001) that they don't use it at the factory, I did see some bottles of it there. When he speaks of stuff that they use that's "too harsh", I suspect he's referring to the rubbing compound and car buffer they use on tops and backs, and the Menzerna that RIC uses on everything except tops and backs; definitely professional stuff with a steep learning curve!

Sascha, the product in your link looks really good, judging from the MSDS, but it doesn't seem to be available in the USA. The USA equivalent seems to have Teflon in it, and I'd have to try it before recommending it.

"In the US You use e.g. turtle wax. This sonax stuff is more or less the same, AFAIK." Nothing could be further from the truth!

That having been said, there are references in that old thread to silicone contamination's effect on refinishing. It can be a problem, but it doesn't preclude a refinish; it just requires much more care or the new paint won't stick!

[Hotzenplotz]

Yes, other coutries, other products.

A long time ago I read about this turtle wax (not really available here...). After a longer (very long) search I "translated" Turtle Wax into Sonax for me.
Unfortunately I can not remember all sources.
I only remember a guy in some Mercedes-Benz forum. There are a lot of people that create their own polishes and sealer with ingredients from a pharmacy. He was a guru of this crazy crowd.

This german Sonax does not contain teflon, AFAIK. Very harmless stuff - and fortunately not perfumed like a lot of other products. Unfortunaltely not available in the US...
Only that "nano" stuff (what I do not like).

EDIT: I found the link of the Merceds-Benz forum! - but it is dead.

BUT : Some crazy BMW drivers copied the content of a similar product, fortunately! Here is a link (in german), first post:
http://www.e39-forum.de/thread.php?threadid=6676

A simple translator should make that understandable.


Carnauba wax, natural oils (or an industrial substitute), lecithin (or similar emulsifying agent) and water seem to be the main ingredients of Sonax. - No teflon.

[steverok]

I got the guitar early in 2010, but I will get the serial # tonight. I'll also try to photograph it. The reason for my concern is that my other two JGs look great with almost no maintenance, and have a smooth, uniform look to the lacquer, whereas this guitar has irregularity.

[deaconblues]

Rickenbacker has had problems with JG in the past. 2010 seems to be beyond the usual time period that you hear associated with bad JG (2007-2008). I once owned a 2007 325c64 that, while a great guitar, had a somewhat sticky finish.

[JakeK]

Who remembers grayglo? When did that occur? I'd like to say circa 2007...
http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewt ... f=5&t=9194