Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

It continues to baffle me when Rickenbacker's standard pickup, the Hi-Gain, is referred to as the "new" one - or the inherent snobbery when it comes to these ("I read on a forum you should immediately swap those out for toasters blah blah blah").

New?!? They were phased in starting in the late '60s! I guess these same folks never liked The Jam, The Smithereens, or R.E.M. either.

Anyway!!! The Hi-gain. Do these various phases of this pickup sound right?


Phase 1: exposed pole pieces; also referred to as the 381 pickup or the Lightshow pickup

Phase 2: button-top, with a coat of black paint over the top (1970s)

Phase 3: black "fiberboard," mid- late 1980s

Phase 4: same bobbin as toaster pickups (1990s)

Phase 5: same as Phase 4 but with adjustable poles, approx. 2006-present.

Yep, what your saying sounds right to me. Also, don't forget, that the output of the Hi Gains (due to an incerase in windings) has gone up over the years. The original edition ones, had about as much DC coil resistance (about 8 kilo ohms), as a P90. Present ones run about 12 kilo ohms of DC resistance. Oh yeah, I think Hi Gains are great. Not everybody wants 60s jangle out of their Rics.

Every time I try out a Toaster Top loaded Ric, I end up putting it down, and saying "next!" This was once again the case last week Friday, when I went to try out a couple of Rics, to replace the 2006 Mapleglo 360 I sacrificed in a trade for a 60 year old Gretsch Country Club last January. The guitars in question were a 2013, Fireglo 381V69, and a 2013, Mapleglo 360. I think 381s are cool looking guitars, and I also like large bodied guitars. Throw in the relative scarcity of the 381, and it became a serious contender for me. I've liked, and played 360s off and on for years. I plugged the 381V69 into a Blackstar amp. It sounded great clean. But as soon as I piled on the gain, all bets were off - not enough crunch, and not enough mids or bottom end for my taste. After about 10 seconds of playing the 381 in the amp's dirt channel, I told myself, "this ain't working", and reached for the 360. What can I say? It had nice cleans, and almost as much jangle IMO, as the 381 had with its Toaster Tops, and had that REM & 80s alt rock sound to boot. What really did it for me, was when I piled on the gain - lots of crunch, with more mids and bottom end, and with better note definition IMO, than any toaster loaded Ric I've tried out over the years. All I could say to myself, is, "now we're talking!" So for the 4th time in the past (almost) 19 years, I ended up becoming the proud owner of a 360.

Don't get me wrong, Toaster Top loaded Rics are great guitars, but I find the Hi-Gain (and Mini-Humbucker) loaded ones, to be more versatile soundwise. YMMV, and this personal conclusion does not include the overwound Toaster Tops that were made for a while in the 90s/early 2000s (I haven't had a chance to try out any guitars loaded with them).

360girl wrote: So for the 4th time in the past (almost) 19 years, I ended up becoming the proud owner of a 360.

Congrats on the new 360 acquisition, Ellen !

kennyhowes wrote: Phase 4: same bobbin as toaster pickups (1990s)

If you'd said "appearance similar to toaster", I'd agree. But in fact it's a completely different bobbin. (Actually two different, as there were both a treble and bass version).

So, are the ridges on the Hi-Gains' bobbins for stylistic reasons, like say, to give an "appearance similar to Toasters" or do they serve a more practical funtion?

Clint wrote:So, are the ridges on the Hi-Gains' bobbins for stylistic reasons, like say, to give an "appearance similar to Toasters" or do they serve a more practical funtion?

They are neither stylistic or practical. It was simply the reuse of some existing tooling.

johnhall wrote:They are neither stylistic or practical. It was simply the reuse of some existing tooling.

I would call that practical.

Clint wrote:

johnhall wrote:They are neither stylistic or practical. It was simply the reuse of some existing tooling.

I would call that practical.

I would call it thrifty.

kennyhowes wrote:It continues to baffle me when Rickenbacker's standard pickup, the Hi-Gain, is referred to as the "new" one - or the inherent snobbery when it comes to these ("I read on a forum you should immediately swap those out for toasters blah blah blah").

+1 (from a bassist's perspective). Sometimes I think the Hi-Gain is Rickenbacker's best pickup for overall versatility. The venerable Toaster is tough to beat but the Hi-Gain is a bit of a sleeping giant. Not sure why they aren't more popular on forums.

cassius987 wrote:Sometimes I think the Hi-Gain is Rickenbacker's best pickup for overall versatility. The venerable Toaster is tough to beat but the Hi-Gain is a bit of a sleeping giant. Not sure why they aren't more popular on forums.

I got my Ric 360/12 back in 1992. I had no idea what a toaster pickup was, humbucker, single coil, Fitertron, High-Gain, etc... All I knew was that my Ric 12 sounded like I wanted it to sound. It was only years later that someone told me I had High Gains. My reaction then, as it is now, was, "So what?"

Hi-gains sound a little muddy to my ears, especially distorted. I couldn't bond with them on my 330. Maybe the new ones sound better.

deaconblues wrote:Hi-gains sound a little muddy to my ears, especially distorted. I couldn't bond with them on my 330. Maybe the new ones sound better.

+1. I replaced the hi-gains on my 330 with toasters and love the little beast to death now.... Brightness and clarity rule!

I really like the '70s hi-gains on three of my basses, which have a DC resistance very similar to the current toasters.

8mileshigher wrote:

360girl wrote: So for the 4th time in the past (almost) 19 years, I ended up becoming the proud owner of a 360.

Congrats on the new 360 acquisition, Ellen !

Thanks Rich!

As for the Hi-Gains vs Toasters debate - IMO Hi Gains have a bit more bass than Toasters (which I like - I don't care for bright sounding pickups). It also depends upon how aggressive you like your distortion tones. Having played in bands that did metal and other forms of heavy music, I prefer some low end wallop, and a modern heavy rock sound. Combine this with the single coil nature of the Hi Gains (which OWN everybody's "flavor of the month" pickup - the P90, due to being wound hotter), and I get note clarity to boot. My problem with toasters, is that to me they sound kind of blurry notewise, when I'm in kill mode through an uber gain amp. Toasters do killer jangle, and great vintage, and alt rock sounds. They just don't IMO, do very good heavy rock sounds.

As I said earlier, not every Ric player wants the bright sounds of Harrison & McGuinn, that Toasters can do in spades. YMMV (it depends to a large extent, upon your musical preferences).

antipodean wrote:

deaconblues wrote:Hi-gains sound a little muddy to my ears, especially distorted. I couldn't bond with them on my 330. Maybe the new ones sound better.

+1. I replaced the hi-gains on my 330 with toasters and love the little beast to death now.... Brightness and clarity rule!

I really like the '70s hi-gains on three of my basses, which have a DC resistance very similar to the current toasters.

I also like the 70's style weaker high gains for the basses, and I like the weaker ones for the guitars too. The high gains since the 90's with their ~12k winds have so much wire on the bobbin that they distort and compress too much for me to get any clarity. I actually like the HB1's and 2's for higher gain stuff on the guitars as they still retain some clarity while giving serious crunch.

Greg

soundmasterg wrote:I actually like the HB1's and 2's for higher gain stuff on the guitars as they still retain some clarity while giving serious crunch.

Greg

I love the tone from my 2030GF with it's HB-2 pickups. Great classic Rick bass tone without the hum.