Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Well - controversial subject!!!!

I've just taken delivery of a rather nice 4004, with a V V T loom: 500k vol, 500k vol, 1meg tone, 0.047uf capacitor.

The original loom came with it too: Switch, 330k vol, 330k tone, 0.047uf capacitor.

I'd rather a Switch Volume Tone setup, like the original, and having fitted HB1's to the bridge in both my 4003 rics, where each pickup has its own Vol and tone, the pots (with Dane's advice) are 500k volume, with 500k & 0.022uf for tone. They sound bright, punchy, and fully loaded. (push/pull coil taps too) The neck higains have 250k Vol and 500k + 0.047uf for tone. Max final load with this setup is approx 166k with both pickups selected

For the 4004 I'll try the modified loom, and the stock loom, but I'm keen to replicate the 4003 setup's punch, but with single vol and tone and the switch, using the 0.022 tone capacitor.

Would anybody care to guess on 250k, 330k 500k or 1meg for the volume pot? Or any practical experience of rewiring a 4004. Tone will be 500k + 0.022uf, with each half of the push/pull switch (DPST) operating the coil tap on each pickup, together (but NOTjoining the centre connection of the HB1s together when not coil tapped)

I think the 500k tone and 0.022uf cap work superbly for tone on HB1s.

Or maybe stick with the original spec, but just change the tone for a 330k push/pull and a 0.022 cap?

Nice delemma!

I need a new nut too, the neck is about 1mm-2mm wider than my 88 and 98 4003 rics. Presumably replacement ric nuts can accommodate, or are they intended for the narrower current necks?

Controverse'?! Well,maybe,I tend to think whatever works,works! I had my Cii's stock electronics replaced (from Dane) with the same as is currently in your 4004. I would not go back to the the stock setup,the different values really improved the tone,and i just prefer a VVT setup to the VTS one. At the very least that baby toggle would need to be replaced with an "adult" one.
I have a vol/vol/tone/tone/toggle with the same value pots,etc. on my Laredo,but i really prefer the simpler circuit on my Cii.

woodyng wrote: At the very least that baby toggle would need to be replaced with an "adult" one.

What would be fabulous, would be a decent switch, bigger than the pathetic mini toggle, but perhaps not as big as a full-sized Switchcraft, (as fitted to Les Pauls), which, once the hole is enlarged to 1/2" to accommodate such a switch, the mod is non reversible, and nothing else fits in a half inch hole!

Seeing as V V T is a common mod in 4004, and it's a matter of only slightly enlarging the old switch hole, to take a 3/8" pot, then a similarly sized 3/8" switch would be perfect too, rather than the immature switch!

I'm now understanding why Mr Hall and the boys at Ric used a mini switch, because, it makes modding so much easier (such as V V T), thus future-proofing the 4004 beasties!

So - the big question - is there a 3/8" On/On/On SPDT (or DPDT) switch out there, bigger than mini toggles, but smaller than the 1/2" Switchcrafts? I've trawled Ebay, and Maplins in the UK - no joy yet

VC

Sorry - when referring to 3/8" and 1/2" pots, I mean the hole diameters into which they fit, not the shaft length!

Those mini switches are actually quite strong with better electrical contacts in them, too. Maybe they're just not "manly" looking enough for you?

jps wrote:Those mini switches are actually quite strong with better electrical contacts in them, too. Maybe they're just not "manly" looking enough for you?

"Manley-yes,but i like it,too!" Nope,it's just that I haveta put on my reading specs to find it.....
And i think even possibly better than the VVT setup,might be a master volume,Pan,Tone....

woodyng wrote:...Pan,Tone....

Here!

woodyng wrote:Manley-yes....

Yes, indeed!

Oooh!!!! Master volume, Pan tone!!!!!!!

Bert H was trying to convince me of the same!

now to find a decent pan pot! Any suggestions?

Just found RS components in the UK. Using Bourns pots, wiring loom for the 4004 as follows:

500k Master Volume pot (full size 24mm)

500k Pan pot for pickup variable selection (only availlable in 17mm with split shaft) The pan pot has a notched centre, and beyond that point either way, one or the other pickup remains at full output.

500k Tone push/pull pot with DPDT switch (only availlable in 17mm with split shaft) The switch will coil tap both pickups at once. I don't need sperate coil tap option.

0.022 tone capacitor.

I've a few bushings on the way too, to convert the split shaft pots to proper screw-fit control-knob type.

The advantage of the pan pot, is that you have a single volume control to keep whinging drummers happy, but still the ability to blend the pickups.

In order to get past the minimum order for free post, I got enough parts to rewire my JB the same way, new pots for my triple neck, as well as a spare set for a 4004. Hopefully the spare loom will go to Alan Davey (of Hawkwind fame) otherwise, i'll offer it here. Don't worry Dane - I HATE soldering with a passion (get burned every time!), so this is a strtictly one-off! Don't want to steel your thunder!

VC

vulcan_creedler wrote:I HATE soldering with a passion (get burned every time!)

Stop grabbing the iron from the business end!

rickenbrother wrote:

vulcan_creedler wrote:I HATE soldering with a passion (get burned every time!)

Stop grabbing the iron from the business end!

Alas - I HAVE done that once!!!

vulcan_creedler wrote:I'm now understanding why Mr Hall and the boys at Ric used a mini switch, because, it makes modding so much easier (such as V V T), thus future-proofing the 4004 beasties!

I wish I had been as forward thinking as that but actually I chose the mini-switch for two other reasons. The first is depth and available real estate in that area. The second was anticipating using a multilayer PCB board in the future to mount and shield the components, including a possible active circuit. It's quite easy to get PCB mounting tabs for the mini-switch but virtually impossible for the full sized, multi-leaved toggle.

johnhall wrote:
I wish I had been as forward thinking as that but actually I chose the mini-switch for two other reasons. The first is depth and available real estate in that area. The second was anticipating using a multilayer PCB board in the future to mount and shield the components, including a possible active circuit. It's quite easy to get PCB mounting tabs for the mini-switch but virtually impossible for the full sized, multi-leaved toggle.

Nice!

vulcan_creedler wrote: Using Bourns pots, wiring loom for the 4004 as follows:

500k Master Volume pot (full size 24mm)

500k Pan pot for pickup variable selection (only available in 17mm with split shaft) The pan pot has a notched centre, and beyond that point either way, one or the other pickup remains at full output.

500k Tone push/pull pot with DPDT switch (only available in 17mm with split shaft) The switch will coil tap both pickups at once. I don't need sperate coil tap option.

0.022 tone capacitor.
VC

Well - I finally got round to fitting the pan-pot wiring loom! Just a quick test in the house with my practice amp and I'm VERY repeat VERY pleased with the pan pot, as well as having a single master volume. The gradual panning gives a lovely range of warm sounds, and there's a sweet spot, just off centre, and much easier to control than V V T. I'll report back fully, after next rehearsal, when I'll thrash the bast*rd!!

New Ric nut fitted, so all I have to do now is fill the extra hole from where the 5th tuner was fitted. Maybe next year!

Right my JB is about to get the same treatment!

GT