Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I blundered onto this video on Youtube, great stuff showing several versions of paint on Squire's old 4001, culminating in the cream finish. Interesting to see the transition from Peter Banks to Steve Howe also. Was he using stereo output at this point? I only see one bass amp. It always sounds like he has a little bit of distortion on the treble end, was this just inherent to his amp, pickups, setup, string attack, or was he using some kind of overdrive pedal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SszeZhF9Xq4

Another great example of that growly, slightly distorted tone. This guy nails it. I was never able to get that exact sound out of my old 79' 4001. What's your "recipe" for a classic Squire tone? The Youtube dude quotes:

"Neck p/u into a 60's wollensack tube tape recorder into mesa boogie cab. Mic'd with a condenser into PT plug in add compression. Bridge P/u into 70's mxr blue EQ into Transmorgrfier compression pedal into a fender tweed pro Junior with alcino (blue) 10" speaker distort those tubes a bit only when you dig in make it bright. Mic'd with A tube condenser. Sounds cool in the room live.. Low action and straight neck so you can hear string buzz.."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wke0eAPn ... 1P1H58009Q

My current setup gets very close to the early Squire sound but, in my experience, the one factor that creates that sound that simply cannot be replicated is Chris's own individual right hand plectrum style and left hand fingering technique. Many years ago, I read an article in the press about Squire's plectrum technique that fascinated me. It seems that he hits the strings very much as a guitarist would if he was "stinging" them - in other words, he uses the bare minimum of plectrum edge to make contact with the strings, using a small amount of his his thumb as well, whilst hitting the string pretty quickly - almost "pinching" it. I think that's all about how one holds a plectrum.

Tonal style is to a great extent individual to every musician. You can use the same bass, with the same pickups and wiring, and the same amp (I even bought a Sunn Concert bass amp 30 years ago to try to emulate that sound) but the bottom line is - I just don't have his fingers. Same with John Entwistle - you can get close but I reckon it's impossible to nail it exactly.

I still try though....

Ash

That was a cool video (first one).

As for tone, I agree with Ash - it's so individual. The closest I ever got to Squire's tone was a gig where I really pushed my amp hard and the distortion and Rick clank came close. Oddly enough the 4001 had flats on it, and I use my fingers. But I tend to dig in very hard.

I don't think that Squire started using the stereo output until sometime before the Yes Album. I think around this time he had gotten the 21 fret MG 4001 and began experimenting with it's stereo output. The only time I can recall hearing him actually use the stereo effect is on Perpetual Change on the TYA. Also, it sounds like it's direct as well up to just after 5 minutes and then it sound like the Marshall amp. It very noticeable with headphones. He's stated several times in interviews that the only reason he went stereo was to have the option to send either one or both pickups thru his effects, not to use an amp for each pickup. He sited the main reason was he loved the fuzz sound of the neck pickup, but hated the bridge pickup fuzz sound. As for recreating his tone, it's a combination of the RM (nothing sounds like a 60s horsie) settings and setup, his technique, and his amp eq and the volume he plays, he's a loud player. His basses have a high action, but his right hand technique is very heavy, so his gets a lot of fret buzz and that in combination with the tube amp distortion contributes to that fuzzy sound he gets. Any of the old 70s 50 or 100 watt all tube amps thru 12" speakers can get close, but as already mentioned, I don't think anyone can exactly copy that sound.

Bassically, Michael

Gilmourisgod wrote:I blundered onto this video on Youtube, great stuff showing several versions of paint on Squire's old 4001, culminating in the cream finish. Interesting to see the transition from Peter Banks to Steve Howe also. Was he using stereo output at this point? I only see one bass amp. It always sounds like he has a little bit of distortion on the treble end, was this just inherent to his amp, pickups, setup, string attack, or was he using some kind of overdrive pedal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SszeZhF9Xq4

It's the scarf on the wrist that is key . Great to see this again in remastered form. Thank you for sharing!
The recorded version of 'Opportunity' I believe was his Fender Tele Bass....also employed on 'South Side of The Sky'.

Technique etc., which has been discussed. But, 100W Marshals, live with driven Mullards, provide a warm mid-range break up as well. I don't know what OT they used. Same with the 100W Old Hiwatts, but they seemed to be cleaner longer. Mine had GEC (OM) tubes, and I can't recall the OT, perhaps a Partridge.

I saw them numerous times in the 70's, thru the 1980 Drama tour, and Squires tone was always exemplary. Once (when in college) while working part time as a stagehand at the Rochester War Memorial, they arrived two days early, and I was able to watch them rehearse for 12 hrs. This was the the day before the show, when they first were using the rotating 'round' stage. We were expressly forbidden to try to chat with the band, and watched from the press box. Later, I was able to corner Squire at the hotel after the show, but found him (understandably) a bit standoffish.

Miguel or Pete Greenwood could provide greater insights.

In order to get Squire's tone,You have to break the bass' neck near the headstock and reglue it........

woodyng wrote:In order to get Squire's tone,You have to break the bass' neck near the headstock and reglue it........

Twice!

The recorded version of 'Opportunity' I believe was his Fender Tele Bass....also employed on 'South Side of The Sky'.

The more I listen, the more it sounds to me like many of the earlier songs were recorded with the Telecaster Bass. Perpetual Change included.
But Rickenbacker or Fender, it seems the sound requires Rotosounds, an aggressive right hand picking style and the Brassmaster fuzz.

Chris "usually" plays the same basses in concert that he plays on the records. Whenever i've seen them play PC,he uses the RM.
I will say the PC outro parts on the lp sound very punchy,like his Tele bass.....

Having listened to just about every album track, bootleg, video etc. in researching Chris Squires tone
I find that the early recordings sound closer to the sound that I heard coming off stage at Yes gigs up to the TFTO tour.

I dont think theres much tonal difference between Yes/TAAW RM tracks and Roundabout/CTTE when listening to the isolated bass tracks of those songs.
From Relayer onwards theres a definite shift in tone towards a more rounded bass sound (plus some added treble edge) with a track like "Silent wings of freedom"being a bit of an exception with multi effects dominating the track.
Ritual on TFTO is a turning point in that Chris was going for a more "Jack Bruce" tone as he put it.
Compare side 1 and side 4 of that album and you can hear the change in tack on the bass and from there the Rick
never goes back to that growl you heard on CTTE.

I find that at home practicing through the hi-fi using a Line 6 Bass Pod with the Marshall SupaBass setting and a bit of eq tweaking with my small mixer,
I can get the same tones heard in the early/mid 70s period Yes (with no effects) with no problem.
Drive on the amp and attack from your right hand is the key plus varying your picking position to copy CS.
Chris uses the behind the HS position and also the forward position near the toaster depending on the part of the song.
On live bootlegs you can often hear Chris bringing in the tremelo pedal even on phrases of AYAI plus other songs and that also alters the basic tone.
In many ways its the player not the equipment that dictate the tone.
Never underestimate how much tone control you have with the 4001/3 basses.
I do whole gigs and rehearsals without touching my amp....its all from the bass and the volume pedal.
Dont forget the RS66LD strings either....and dont worry about the frets it will be worth it.

I think its just Squires style and lots of volume pushing the amp. Back in the day they didn't have all the technology / gadgets we have now, so I really believe it came down to technique and a big amp more than anything. If you wanted a certain tone, it had to come from your hands and soul.

Listen to America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ia8_Lav32c

Same setup as the CTTE sessions.
Same rasp on the bass!

pag wrote:Same setup as the CTTE sessions.
Same rasp on the bass!

And he is attacking the strings aggressively!