1964 Rickenbacker

[Ludhamman]

Hope someone can help.

Sadly now the owner of a 1964 Rickenbacker Guitar after my brother passed away recently. From serial number made in May 1964. Well used and worn.


Original Rickenbacker case. Believe my brother or someone has painted it.


No idea what it is. Would like to know more about it.


Thanks

[jps]

That's a Rose-Morris import version of a model 325. It could be worth mid 5 figure prices, potentially.

[maxwell]

Condolences on your loss...

Take a look: https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... backer-325 (a very good year!)

No, your guitar has not been painted. Do not clean, or do anything to it other than keep it in its case in a safe, controlled physical and thermal environment.

Just so you don't (try to) get snookered along the way, there have been periodic reissues of this model guitar, known as the Model 1996 (almost the same as U.S. model 325), made for and imported to Great Britain by the Rose Morris company (RIC distributor). Don't let anyone trick you into thinking yours is a reissue, e.g., http://www.rickenbacker.com/model.asp?model=1996 which sell for (only) about $3K. (There have also been additional reissue years....)

Some background info, briefly, on your guitar: http://www.rickbeat.com/lennonappeal.htm

General RIC info: http://www.rickenbacker.com/history_modern.asp

There are a hundred guys on this web site with far more knowledge than I have. I'm sure a couple can point you to a worthy appraiser of vintage Rickenbacker guitars. Don't get an appraisal from your local guitar store or a pawn shop.

Take some time to search/read this site. Lots of info here that can make you knowledgeable about what you have.

[Ontario_RIC_fan]

I too think the finish is original.

Sn would be DE 5xx, looking at other 1996 guitars in the register.

You need to to use heavier gauge strings (12 to 54) in order for it to be playable.

RIC has a set made for this model.

http://boutique.rickenbacker.com/STRING ... p_682.html

The case looks original too.

If you are in the UK or Europe then it is a Rose Morris 1996 guitar in Fireglo. If you are in the the US, then it is a 325.

Same guitar either way, but only RIC knows which ones got sent to Rose Morris, who distributed them in the UK.

I would really love to see more pictures of it!!

[maxwell]

After all my poking around the internet looking at 1996 models, this one looks (the shade of Fireglo) somewhat different/lighter -- could very well be a 325 (U.S. model). Yeah, RIC (Rickenbacker International Corp.) will know for sure. Perhaps you should post the same question there. Mr. John Hall is the owner and checks in once-in-a-while. He is very knowledgeable and can identify it precisely. If you care to, mention your intent as to the eventual disposition of the guitar - he may also be able to suggest something helpful.

http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/

Once correctly identified, you can investigate a value on your own, or seek that appraisal, which in your case (novice?) will provide a detailed overview of the guitar's relative condition (incl. originality of all components), e.g., general condition of finish and include any scratches, wear, etc.; cracks, breaks, repairs, etc.; condition of neck - straight vs. warped, etc.; condition of frets - wear, etc.; functionality of electronics - pickups and controls; eval. of the vibrato.... lots of stuff to properly eval and document if it is your intention to sell. All/any buyer will want to know such details before laying out the big bucks for it. If you want to keep it and play, get the strings suggested in the previous post.

Anyway, the guitar is relatively valuable. This is not the sort of thing you give to a kid for his first guitar, or to someone unappreciative of its value who may take it to a pawn shop for cigarette and beer money. Good luck.

https://reverb.com/item/2591246-used-19 ... ar-fireglo

https://reverb.com/price-guide/guide/906

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-1967-Ricke ... Sw4CFYpzMk

[maxwell]

(...edit window expired....) FYI.... http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Rickenbacker-325 ... rmvSB=true

Looks a lot like yours, doesn't it?

[Ludhamman]

Thanks for all the advice.

I thought the carrying case had been painted but i suppose white was a standard colour.

Added a few more photos.

Going to get the guitar checked out at a local music shop - my family has used before.

[Ludhamman]

Another question

Have read articles on a 'one o'clock' and 'two o'clock' F hole.

From looking at photographs I've assumed mine is the rarer 'two o'clock' F hole - does anyone agree?

[Ontario_RIC_fan]

I thought the carrying case had been painted but i suppose white was a standard colour.

Added a few more photos.

Going to get the guitar checked out at a local music shop - my family has used before.

The case exterior was silver when it left the factory. It may have been painted as you suggest.

My thanks for the additional photos.

We never get tired at looking at pictures of vintage Rickenbackers here.

[collin]

No, your guitar has not been painted. Do not clean, or do anything to it other than keep it in its case in a safe, controlled physical and thermal environment.

It's not the Shroud of Turin. It's an instrument, a tool for making music (albeit a valuable tool). Clean it (the correct way), string it, and play it in your brother's name. Confining it to a case is about the saddest thing you could do with it.

Or sell it to somebody who WILL use it.

That's a Rose-Morris import version of a model 325. It could be worth mid 5 figure prices, potentially.

I'd say that is an overly-optimistic valuation, Jeff. Some dealers had been asking well over $10K for a '64 1996 back during the peak of the bubble, but the demand (and price) for the 1996 is typically less than the 1993/12 and 1999 bass models.

After all my poking around the internet looking at 1996 models, this one looks (the shade of Fireglo) somewhat different/lighter -- could very well be a 325 (U.S. model).

There was NO difference in the production Rose Morris instruments. Same woodwork, same exact finish, same everything. Starting in 1965 (or very late 1964), the Rose Morris guitars kept the old style black knobs while the U.S. equivalent (i.e. "S" models) typically had the new silver-topped knobs.

Most Rose Morris models also had the metal badge on the case, but that isn't a change to the guitar itself.

You can't tell anything about the model via the shade of Fireglo - other than often dating the year without a SN (but that's not an exact science).

Another question

Have read articles on a 'one o'clock' and 'two o'clock' F hole.

From looking at photographs I've assumed mine is the rarer 'two o'clock' F hole - does anyone agree?

The Two O'Clock models are rarer because they were only made for half a year in 1964. Later in the year the soundhole position was switched. The earlier soundhole models usually bring a slight premium over one o'clock positions, which is mostly because of Beatles fans. John Lennon played an identical model for a couple shows around Christmas 1964 as a fill-in for his main 325 model.

In any case, I'd be highly skeptical of whatever your local music store says about the guitar. Most shops barely know about Rickenbackers, let alone rare vintage models. I'm willing to bet that shop doesn't have a fraction of the knowledge that this forum has, so you're in the right place.

[jps]

That's a Rose-Morris import version of a model 325. It could be worth mid 5 figure prices, potentially.

I'd say that is an overly-optimistic valuation, Jeff. Some dealers had been asking well over $10K for a '64 1996 back during the peak of the bubble, but the demand (and price) for the 1996 is typically less than the 1993/12 and 1999 bass models.

I was just trying to encourage the OP.

[collin]

That's a Rose-Morris import version of a model 325. It could be worth mid 5 figure prices, potentially.

I'd say that is an overly-optimistic valuation, Jeff. Some dealers had been asking well over $10K for a '64 1996 back during the peak of the bubble, but the demand (and price) for the 1996 is typically less than the 1993/12 and 1999 bass models.

I was just trying to encourage the OP.

AH, but what if that encouragement led to disappointment? I'd rather be realistic.

[wints]

Condolences on your loss of your brother Chris...

Are you in the UK? Is that Ludham in Norfolk?

This board has the most experienced eyes and knowledge you will find certainly from an online perspective. As already pointed out, your local shop will probably have never seen one, unless there's some old, old heads in there. Use this site and you should find out everything you need to know.

Cheers,

[maxwell]

No, your guitar has not been painted. Do not clean, or do anything to it other than keep it in its case in a safe, controlled physical and thermal environment.

It's not the Shroud of Turin. It's an instrument, a tool for making music (albeit a valuable tool). Clean it (the correct way), string it, and play it in your brother's name. Confining it to a case is about the saddest thing you could do with it.

Or sell it to somebody who WILL use it.

Obviously the guitar fell into his lap, in the most unexpected and unfortunate of circumstances. Nearly as obvious was that he is not a guitar player or collector, seeking valuation advice for which I assumed would be an eventual sale. I was only cautioning against any well-meaning yet potentially deleterious treatment until its disposition. To think I was suggesting that he put it in the case hidden away forever is an asinine assumption. Unfortunately, I (too?) have been an executor of an estate.

[Ludhamman]

Yes it is Ludham, Norfolk. Now living in London though.

I will eventually sell as I have other items of my brother's with far more personnel memories. I can't keep everything.

I need to establish a value for probate/inheritance tax and for insurance as now left in my house. Indicative UK prices is approx. £4000, dependent on condition. I'll have that assessed in the next few weeks. I have no need to hurry.