Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Good morning all. I'm first time poster, long time reader of this forum. I figured this is the place to go for some much needed advice. I just purchased a used 2003 325C58 and I'm having some major issues with adjustment of the truss rod. When the guitar arrived at my door it was set up like a bad Walmart guitar. I updated the Kauffman bracket with a Winfield Vintage replacement that raises the Kauffman off of the body to prevent any more scratching and restrung it with Pyramid flats, .12-.52s. The neck has some serious bowing and I can't pinpoint the problem. I first gently tightened the nut but noticed nothing was happening. I did some online browsing and thought perhaps the truss rode in the 58 was different from my 360/12C63 and 325C64. So I loosened the nut and put gently pressure on the neck until I had a slight overbow to compensate for the string tension. I retightened the nut and the neck went right back to it's original position. Even with the strings completely slack there is a noticeable bow in the neck. Sadly, I did not really follow through with the seller of this guitar to make sure it was properly set up before purchase. I don't normally buy used guitars and I didn't have any issues with my two previously mentioned Rics, so I didn't think to double check for these kind of issues.

So, there's my story, now the question. Are there any other members who've had this or a similar problem with the C58? It doesn't appear that the truss rod is broken but could it be stripped? I'm welcome to any and all suggestions. If it is a bad truss rod, what would be the best course of action to get it repaired and who out there in Rickenbacker land would be best suited for a job like this? I live in Montana and Rics are pretty rare, so I don't feel comfortable taking it to any of the local shops. Thank you everyone out there in advance and to the RR for providing a wonderful place for us fans!

Just a guess, as I don't own a C58.

But does the guitar, being a recreation of a 57 Ric, use the old style hairpin truss rod system??

If so, then turning the nuts won't adjust the neck.

Do a search on this forum on "Adjusting old style truss rods".

Again I don't know if this will help you at all, but it was the first thing that came to mind.

Folks who own a C58 will hopefully chime in to help you.

I'm not entirely sure. I know for a fact it is a single truss rod and not a double like my other two Rics. I'm not home at the moment but I'll upload a pic tonight to show what I'm working with. Thanks for the tip.

Sometimes rods can come free and "spin." Did you feel some resistance (normal) when you turned it? If not, that could be the problem. Were you able to get it straightened out with your adjustment?

I would remove the rod, straighten it, then reinsert it. Sometimes the body end losses it's grip and spins, or the rod gets a "set" to it.

Sorry for the delay. Here's a couple pics of the truss rod on my C58. My main question would be is this the "hairpin" style truss rod of older style Rics?

jdogric12 wrote:Sometimes rods can come free and "spin." Did you feel some resistance (normal) when you turned it? If not, that could be the problem. Were you able to get it straightened out with your adjustment?

When I went to adjust the truss rod, the nut tightened but no adjustments happened. That's when I started to wonder if this was an older style truss rod so I loosened the nut and physically moved the neck into place and retightened the nut but the neck moved right back to how it was.

aceonbass wrote:I would remove the rod, straighten it, then reinsert it. Sometimes the body end losses it's grip and spins, or the rod gets a "set" to it.

How would I go about removing the truss rod from the neck? I have a decent understanding of how to set guitars up but by no means am I a guitar tech.

Thank you everyone so far for the info!

Based on my experience with my guitar (and with info provided by Mr. John Hall at the RIC forum), looking at your photos it seems that the nut is threaded down on the truss rod pretty far, in fact, perhaps at the end of the rod’s threads. If this is the case, the end point of any effort to tighten the nut may simply be the inability of the nut to be threaded down any further. If you end up taking the truss rod partially or completely out, mark or score a line on the rod at the top of the adjustment nut before you loosen or take it off. When the rod is out, you can see if you can/would be able screw the nut further down (just for curiosity’s sake).

The probable reason why this may happen—how the nut could be at its end point of adjustment—is that undue tightening of the adjustment nut could cause the anchoring nut & associated lock washer (at the guitar body end) to compress (“dig in”) the wood surrounding the truss rod hole, allowing the truss rod to rise/be pulled upward at the headstock end of the rod as the adjustment nut is tightened. Eventually, if the compression is significant enough, the continual tightening of the adjustment nut could (I suppose) reach the end of available rod threads.

If this is what’s going on with your guitar, you can saturate the compressed wood with “super glue” to harden the wood and add one or more washers to serve as spacers to reposition the rod so that it no longer sits too high at the headstock/adjustment end of the neck. You could add one or more additional lock washers, or modify one (decrease outside diameter) of a common flat washer found at your local hardware store.

(BTW / late observation) On the other hand, unlike the two-rod models, your guitar does not have the metal spacer that the adjustment nut(s) engage as the nut is tightened and prevents the nut from digging in at the adjustment end. So, there seems to be the potential for this to occur at either/both ends. I have no experience with a single truss rod guitar, but there might (?) be a washer (spacer) of some sort within that adjustment end truss rod hole. (There might be an exploded diagram of this guitar/truss rod assembly somewhere….) It would seem that it might be beneficial to have the adjustment nut to ride on some metal as it’s being adjusted….

So, yeah, you’ll have to remove (or nearly remove) your truss rod for an inspection. Your truss rod is typical of the ones currently used: a simple metal rod with threads at both ends. Here are the basic steps for removal. Further information of truss rod removal can be read here:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=414685

1. Remove adjustment nut.
2. Tap the end of the rod downward (into) the neck, driving the anchoring acorn nut & washer out at the guitar body end (place some thin cardboard or something to protect the finish of your guitar body as you work at that end). I’d use your nut driver and a small hammer to begin tapping the rod down, and if/as you tap it down further, switch to something else that will allow you to tap the rod flush or into the truss rod hole (e.g., screwdriver, long Allen wrench).
3. Once fully exposed, remove the acorn nut and lock washer.
4. Tap the rod back into the neck at the body; an Allen wrench can be a handy extension/plunger—see above link.
5. Pull the rod out (partially or entirely) at the headstock; entirely, if you want to fully inspect the adjustment end and see what’s in there.
6. Check out the anchoring end of the neck; how deep is that (stepped) hole?

It probably would be a good idea, in your case, to place super glue at both ends of the neck. Unfortunately, you may be on your own on further evaluating/estimating the condition of your neck end.

If you pull the truss rod out completely, it will likely be curved, probably mirroring the curvature of the underside of the fret board. The problem that you may see—typical of rods that have been muscled too much, esp. when adjustments are attempted with a wrench—is that there is almost a kink in the rod, very near the top of the rod, near the threaded portion. If you see this, you can straighten it out, but you might be better off just buying a new truss rod. But I doubt you’ll be able to find a new one. See my post & exchange with Mr. Hall:

http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewt ... =2&t=16310

…Not a big deal, just more work, some extra expense (for tools). You can see that there are no short scale truss rods available right now. When they were available, you could purchase a single rod. Right now, you would be stuck buying two and then shortening & threading them. (But you’d have a spare, right?) The odds are that you will not really need a new one….

Here’s a couple of useful links:

Truss rods: http://boutique.rickenbacker.com/Trussrods_c_22.html

Misc. parts: http://boutique.rickenbacker.com/Miscel ... _c_18.html

If you look around (Google), you may be able to fine more info, diagrams, etc.

Well, I’m not working today and so I thought I’d offer my two cents. I’m hoping someone else will come along and provide other useful information.

Maxwell, here's what I have at the business end by the body. I'm not sure how to get the acorn nut off the truss rod without causing damage to the surrounding area. You were right with your assumption! I was able to tap the truss rod down but when tightening the adjustment nut it is just pulling the acorn nut back up through the neck. Due to the limited access for this end of the truss rod, I'm starting to think this might be beyond my scope and time to bring a professional in.

Sadly this will be my last day to tinker with as I will be out of town for the next week and a half. Does anybody out there know who might be the one to turn to for such a repair? I appreciate any suggestions! Thanks.

BLUF: You have a tough situation. Yes, find a luthier, I'd say. Well-renowned luthier Paul Wilczynski is a moderator here (aka, "jingle_jangle"). I do not know him at all. I'm sure someone within this forum knows his current status of accepting repair work and how to get in touch with him. (viewforum.php?f=13) (viewforum.php?f=14) He'd be your man if you can set something up.

The acorn nut has to be recessed enough so that no part of it protrudes out from the neck. The position of it as seen in your last photo seems to be about right. If this is the position of the acorn nut when the opposite adjustment nut is tight, then the acorn nut/rod position is probably OK. If it gets pulled up into the neck more than about a quarter of an inch, then I think there may have been some wood compression allowing that movement (and, therefore, undue extension of the rod at the adjustment end).

I am really surprised, however, to see in your last photo that the truss rod opening (hole) is partially covered by the surface of the body; I expected to see the entire circumference of the opening. The hole does look somewhat large, and maybe there is enough "wiggle room" to tease it out, but it doesn't look promising. It also looks like someone has "struggled" to do something down there before; looks a little dinged up, yes?

The rods are somewhat flexible, so that if you can get the acorn nut past the opening somehow, you can force/guide the rod upwards as you tap it out further. I don't know. I could see myself carving a rounded ramp (about a half inch long?) to entirely expose the acorn nut and facilitate tapping the rod down enough to remove the acorn nut and lock washer. One idea to both protect and guide the rod w/ nut out and up would be to place a flexible paint scraper, placing the working end against the end of the neck.... Well, it's hard to explain this stuff. So much of inexperienced effort is trial & error, but this is how I would do it (or like I mention below). You have to do this stuff very carefully and very slowly. Haste makes waste.

Yes, I think finding a luthier (preferably experienced in Ricks) is the best move now. It's tough trying to find a luthier / experience repair person. I Googled "luthier" via the internet of the largest nearby city near me. If you find someone that might be able to access the situation and fix the problem, you'll just have to call and ask if he's repaired neck problems on Ricks. Those "Yelp" reviews and other review "yellow pages" can be useful.

Hopefully the neck would not have to be removed and reset.

(The openings at the anchoring end of MY truss rods are slightly above the guitar face. When I tapped out the rods, they stayed above the surface; the acorn nuts may have wanted to scape the body, but I protected it. I cut out pieces of thin cardboard (file folder) to cover that part of the face next to the neck. I'd add a piece of sheet metal if I had to use much force on anything down there.)

If worse comes to worst, place two or three small washers under the adjustment nut to "provide" more thread for tightening the nut. See what happens. Use the "old" method of neck adjustment, like you just did, so you don't have to crank too hard on that nut.

Anyway, I feel for you. I bought mine used and it had (has) two significant problems: twisted neck and inability to lower strings to proper height (strings lose contact with bridge before low action is achieved). (I have a post about this somewhere here.) Good luck.

PS - Mr. Hall visits here once-in-a-while, although you might want to post your situation and photos on the RIC website if you end up trying to repair this yourself. Maybe he can offer some advice. I posted there frequently when I was actively dealing with my problems a few years ago. He was the only one who could offer truly sage repair advice and cautions.

Once again, Maxwell, a bit THANK YOU for your advice!!! I really appreciate you and everyone else taking the time to suggest possible solutions to my problem. I have heard of Paul Wilczynski and I know his website so I will follow through with him next. If it was any other guitar, or a current production Ric for that matter, I might have a little more courage to try to go further with this by myself. But if I mess this up myself, I could be without this guitar and finding one without the Lennon mods was hard enough as is. Thanks again everybody! You all rock!!!