Not enough relief

[JackTheRipper]

I have a friend with a 2016 4003 that has just a bit too much fret buzz for him. Even with the truss rods completely loose, there's not enough relief. What to do?

Thanks,

--jack

[Dirk]

Raise the bridge or saddles?
Aren't modern Rics using dual action truss rods?
If so go beyond loose to bring it the other way.

[jps]

Either higher action at the bridge, or you could try somewhat higher tension strings to pull the neck up and create more relief.

[cheyenne]

+1 on the higher tension strings.

[JackTheRipper]

Raise the bridge or saddles?
Aren't modern Rics using dual action truss rods?
If so go beyond loose to bring it the other way.

This is a 2016 4003 with dual truss rods. Not a newer one with the dual action truss.

Either higher action at the bridge, or you could try somewhat higher tension strings to pull the neck up and create more relief.

I raised the bridge to get rid of more of the fret buzz as a temporary work around, but that doesn't fix the real issue of not being able to get more relief. It's a little less fun to play that way so I was hoping there was a better fix.

This bass has a black powder coated (I assume) bridge, so I was afraid to suggest high tension strings and cause potential tail lift. At least I assumed the powder coated tailpiece was more susceptible to that? Even the newer ones. I dunno.

Thanks for the suggestions!

--jack

[Dirk]

Could it be a replacement bridge? I'm not up on newer Ric.

Can you manually move the neck to where you want it?
If so hold it in place, and just tighten your rods, actually it's the classic old style rod adjustment technique.

You know it's funny, to me the classic Ric tone I'm looking for is all about getting a good bit of fret buzz , that's the sound with rounds to me.
I always considered it almost a grunt/distortion. But that's what makes the world interesting, it's all about choices.

Good luck,
Dirk

[JackTheRipper]

Could it be a replacement bridge? I'm not up on newer Ric.

Can you manually move the neck to where you want it?
If so hold it in place, and just tighten your rods, actually it's the classic old style rod adjustment technique.

You know it's funny, to me the classic Ric tone I'm looking for is all about getting a good bit of fret buzz , that's the sound with rounds to me.
I always considered it almost a grunt/distortion. But that's what makes the world interesting, it's all about choices.

Good luck,
Dirk

I think it's the original bridge, but I'll ask. I manually moved the neck a bit when I loosened the truss nuts, but didn't move it to create relief. I could try that.

Thanks for the help,

--jack

[lumgimfong]

1. Check the rods at the body side. Acorn nuts equidistant to edge of neck or is one or both sunken deeper into the neck?
2. Never heard of a powder coated 2016 4003 bridge before. Mine was aluminum. You can see it at your house now.
3. 2016 manual doesn’t call the rods dual action. Just says turn cw or ccw til desired relief is achieved. I guess that means ccw beyond neutral is ok to do? Maybe others online know for sure?

[maxwell]

If you run out of ideas and become desperate, you might be able to tap your nut out and then shim it, to raise it up slightly. You’d have to research a little to discover what a good shim material would be (I use index card to change the neck angle of guitars with bolt-on necks); I find YouTube useful, and then Google. The closer the source of your fret buzz is to the nut, the more effective this will be. You would have to experiment with incremental additions of shim until it works or doesn’t work/too far out of whack; takes time and patience. Of course, doing this may affect (to some unknown degree) your comfort with fretting. But, assuming the nut is easily removable, this is a reversible procedure. If it does work, you can have a new nut made, or just leave well enough alone, if that is the case. I can’t think of anything else that hasn’t already been suggested; higher tension strings sound good, but again, may adversely affect your playing comfort (and your wallet if it doesn’t work).

[Dirk]

By the way you can't shim a neck thru 4003.

And the nut end isn't where the problem is from what I can tell, I wouldn't suggest shimming the nut.

I agree the powder coated bridge is curious, but I'm not up on newer Rics. A replacement bridge could easily cause all kinds of issues especially with the height. And shimming under the bridge seems like another bad idea.

In my setups I prefer the neck to be as straight as possible, looking up the neck from the body end.

[maxwell]

shim the nut: that’s why I qualified my idea, “if you… get desperate…”. If you can’t adjust the neck, and the bridge adjustment doesn’t work, and the higher tension strings aren’t effective, then lifting the strings slightly at the nut (what else is left?) might do something. I’d like to find out (easy for me to say. ). You can always store it in a closet…

PS - OK, here's a less radical idea: It just occurred to me that a very easy way to see if some elevation of the strings at the nut might possibly reduce or eliminate fret buzz would be to slip narrow pieces of index card or manilla folder under the strings, on the top of the nut. I'm sure it wouldn't sound great, or even good, BUT the point of the exercise is to see if a slight elevation of strings at the nut will eliminate fret buzz. If not, even after 3 or 4 incremental trial & error elevations, well then, then you know. Even less to risk or lose this way, and so easy to do. If the buzz goes away and the action isn't too high, then plan for a new nut, perhaps, at the newly "established" nut height. If the buzz stays, well you pull out the string groove shims, re-tune and think again.

[maxwell]

You know, a common source of fret buzz is due to a fret or two being too high. How many strings buzz? You can check for errant fret height with a "fret rocker." If you find a spot that "rocks," there's a good chance that that may be the cause of the buzz. This can be adjusted/specific fret leveling. Here's a link to a fret rocker from Stew-Mac, but you can use the edge of a credit card or something that spans three frets. Watch the video:

Here's the video:

https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas ... retrocker/


https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-a ... et-rocker/

[JackTheRipper]

Follow uP;

When he left with the bass, I left the truss rod nuts just a bit loose and tuned it about a half step high. He brought it back last night and there was actually too much relief when tuned to standard tuning. I adjusted the relief and the bridge and it plays really good now and he's happy with it.

Who knows what might happen with seasonal weather changes, but I've had pretty stable necks on my basses here in SoCal.

Thanks for all the suggestions and feedback.

--jack

[maxwell]

(Thumb's up)

[pag]

Is the buzz that noticeable through an amp onstage or is it only present when listening unplugged? If the action is good and you only want to increase the relief because of the buzz then get the frets dressed.