Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

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Isaac
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by Isaac »

cheyenne wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:53 am Funny, back in the day, people were stripping the finish off of their fretboards.
Now they don't have to. But what are those who like the lacquered fretboard to do?
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by Korladis »

iiipopes wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:26 pm
islandjimmy wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:56 pmSince Rickenbacker is no longer applying nitrocellulose lacquer to their 4003 fretboards....
The more correct term is, "Since Rickenbacker is no longer finishing their 4003 fretboards...." Rickenbacker quit using nitro in @ 1958-9. Then they used a conversion varnish, aka catalyzed varnish, for a few decades, and now use a UV cured finish.
I've never really understood the fetishization many people have for nitro.
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lumgimfong
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by lumgimfong »

I heard Nitro wears off faster, yellows with age, and weather checks easier than the modern poly.
But I heard the modern poly stifles the tone.
Don't know if any of that is true or not. Anyone know?
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jps
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by jps »

Korladis wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:35 amI've never really understood the fetishization many people have for nitro.
It's probably a 7ender thing. :mrgreen:
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by islandjimmy »

Korladis wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:35 am
iiipopes wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:26 pm
islandjimmy wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:56 pmSince Rickenbacker is no longer applying nitrocellulose lacquer to their 4003 fretboards....
The more correct term is, "Since Rickenbacker is no longer finishing their 4003 fretboards...." Rickenbacker quit using nitro in @ 1958-9. Then they used a conversion varnish, aka catalyzed varnish, for a few decades, and now use a UV cured finish.
I've never really understood the fetishization many people have for nitro.
I think many people like nitro because it ages nicely, and some believe does not stifle the sound. Nitro "breathes" and never fully cures. It basically gasses off during the life of the instrument. Poly on the other hand, is like covering your guitar in plastic.
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teb
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by teb »

I suspect that there is a pretty drastic difference between what nitro may or may not do on the top and sides of an acoustic guitar's body and what it could do in terms of altering the sound when applied to the fingerboard of a solid body bass. As for nitro "breathing" I wouldn't count on it if I was you. Acoustic guitars "breathe" because the inside is raw wood. Nothing has to pass through the finish.
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by iiipopes »

Korladis wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:35 am
iiipopes wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:26 pm
islandjimmy wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:56 pmSince Rickenbacker is no longer applying nitrocellulose lacquer to their 4003 fretboards....
The more correct term is, "Since Rickenbacker is no longer finishing their 4003 fretboards...." Rickenbacker quit using nitro in @ 1958-9. Then they used a conversion varnish, aka catalyzed varnish, for a few decades, and now use a UV cured finish.
I've never really understood the fetishization many people have for nitro.
Supposedly, a hand-applied and buffed nitro finish is either thinner, or in some way "breathes" with the wood better to give better tone. Personally, I have never been able to tell the difference, although the most I have heard it was about late-'70's and early-'80's Strats and such that CBS had such a thick poly finish on them, possibly nothing would resonate or sustain.
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by Korladis »

iiipopes wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:21 pm
Korladis wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:35 am
iiipopes wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:26 pm
The more correct term is, "Since Rickenbacker is no longer finishing their 4003 fretboards...." Rickenbacker quit using nitro in @ 1958-9. Then they used a conversion varnish, aka catalyzed varnish, for a few decades, and now use a UV cured finish.
I've never really understood the fetishization many people have for nitro.
Supposedly, a hand-applied and buffed nitro finish is either thinner, or in some way "breathes" with the wood better to give better tone. Personally, I have never been able to tell the difference, although the most I have heard it was about late-'70's and early-'80's Strats and such that CBS had such a thick poly finish on them, possibly nothing would resonate or sustain.
I guess also like... Rickenbackers have always been my favorite basses, and haven't used nitro in forever, so it can't be that important. Nitro seems really delicate compared to conversion varnish, too.

Then again I also tend to play into a cranked overdriven amp so maybe it's a wash cause of that anyway.
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by Korladis »

islandjimmy wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:37 am
Korladis wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:35 am
iiipopes wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:26 pm
The more correct term is, "Since Rickenbacker is no longer finishing their 4003 fretboards...." Rickenbacker quit using nitro in @ 1958-9. Then they used a conversion varnish, aka catalyzed varnish, for a few decades, and now use a UV cured finish.
I've never really understood the fetishization many people have for nitro.
I think many people like nitro because it ages nicely, and some believe does not stifle the sound. Nitro "breathes" and never fully cures. It basically gasses off during the life of the instrument. Poly on the other hand, is like covering your guitar in plastic.
As opposed to covering your guitar in explosive lol.

Rickenbackers haven't had nitro in basically forever and they sound fine. Plus conversion varnish seems to be a lot more durable.
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by Korladis »

jps wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:31 pm
Korladis wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:35 amI've never really understood the fetishization many people have for nitro.
It's probably a 7ender thing. :mrgreen:
Honestly seems like it. Seems to go with the mythos around like, magic capacitors and other such ideas.
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jps
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by jps »

Korladis wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:35 pm
jps wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:31 pm
Korladis wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:35 amI've never really understood the fetishization many people have for nitro.
It's probably a 7ender thing. :mrgreen:
Honestly seems like it. Seems to go with the mythos around like, magic capacitors and other such ideas.
On another forum Rick Turner (R.I.P.) had much to say (diss) about magic capacitors. :mrgreen:
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Dirk
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by Dirk »

Sorry to say the claims that nitro breathes and poly doesn't, is complete superstition.

Also consider what about painted bodies then?

So by those theories for best tone, we all should be playing natural wood instruments, with no finish.

Even an oil finish creates a protective layer, by that theory it should be even better/thinner than nitro.

This is of course just my opinion.
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by RIC_FACTORY »

"Thin skin nitro" is a marketing gimmick, always was. For example, Fender used a very thick coating product called Fullerplast as a sealer on its instruments from the early 1960's onward and finished over it with a nitrocellulose top coat.

This guy breaks it down quite nicely...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-6_7I-yO6g

It, along with the whole "thin finishes let the wood breathe so it resonates better... " claptrap was also discussed in this thread many years back on this very forum... https://www.rickresource.com/forum/vie ... llerplast

Nowadays, they (along with literally EVERY guitar maker) use polyester as a sealer coat as Fullerplast is long gone. How do I know? We buy the same stuff from the same vendor they do :wink:

Some people prefer the look and feel of a nitro finish, that vintage "mojo," and that's fine, but they're kidding themselves if they think it's affecting the tone.
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jps
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by jps »

Probably the only place a nitro finish makes sense on relating to musical instruments is acoustic guitars.
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Re: Lacquering a 4003 fretboard?

Post by RIC_FACTORY »

jps wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:36 pm Probably the only place a nitro finish makes sense on relating to musical instruments is acoustic guitars.
Not really Taylor, pioneered the use of UV polyester on its guitars.

Even our old pal up the road from us, Kevin Ryan https://ryanguitars.com/, who sells his acoustics for more than $10k swears by poly.

But the point really is this: Those thin skin finishes you think you're getting... they still have all that supposedly tone suffocating material underneath that nitro top coat. And if I haven't burst anybody's bubble already, guess what? Grain filler is absolutely being used even before the polyester sealer coats go on.
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