New Rick Owner - not so happy so far....

[raketenmann]

Hey there!

I am very new to Rick guitars and own a 330 from 1994 just since last summer.

I really like to style and the feel of the guitar. I wasn't happy with the electric sound: The sounds were muddy. So I wired the volumes pots back to normal (not reversed) and left out the tone knobs and also the blend knob. This had a hughe impact and the guitar sound much ricky and is brighter.

Second thing I don't like is the bridge / Tailpiece construciton. I installed a mastery bridge and really hoped to get better intonation out of it. Somhow it does, but somehow I'm still not happy with it. I think the main problem is not the bridge itself, rather that the 330 just has such a tiny break angle on the bridge ant therefore the downward pressure onto the saddles is very tiny. Because I like playing thicker gauges, this casues problems: on the 3rd string ehwn installing for example a .019 string, this string ois so thick and has so much tension by itself, that tuned to pitch the string sounds completely choked and the part of the string between tailpiece and bridge resonates very loudly and works "against" the string resonance. It seems that the striong touches the saddle on multiple locations within the saddle. If I replace the 3rd string with a wound 3rd all gets better, but somehow I would like to figure out if there are other hacks to get this problem solved. Noone of you guys having these problems? Should I get the original bridge with the slotted saddles back on? Soundwise, I really like the Mastery, makes the guitar sound much fuller and has more sustain. well.... except for the 3rd string.


Happy for all the comments and ideas!

[maxwell]

A few of us, I think, have had a problem or at least some dissatisfaction with the break angle. My Model 1996 was pretty much unplayable because in order to even touch the strings with the bridge I had to raise it way up. Of course, the action was too high, and the break angle was nearly non-existent. The solution to my problem--and probably yours, too--is to get a vintage style Accent SPRING from Winfield Rick parts. This spring, literally, transformed my Rick from unplayable to easily playable. It is a shorter (in height) spring compared to the stock RIC Accent spring. (I, too, installed a Mastery bridge, but the old bridge had nothing to do with my action and string break angle; I just wanted a Deluxe Model 1996.)

Here's their website: https://www.winfieldvintage.com/all-parts

Here's the page for the spring: https://www.winfieldvintage.com/product ... nt-vibrato

Here's the thread for this problem, with me concluding it with commentary and several photos:
viewtopic.php?t=406545

[raketenmann]

Hi maxwell

Thanks for your reply. I‘m very happy to hear that I am not the only person experiencing this problem.

But your solution doesn‘t work (or is not a solution) for me, cause I don‘t have a tremolo/vibrato on the 330 model and also don‘t want a vibrato on it….

[maxwell]

OK, I just typed out a response (below) and then realized that there is no good option that would work for sure. The "R" tailpiece is not that far up & away from the guitar body as it is.... I'm leaving the response here, anyway, hoping that it might stimulate further discussion/ideas. (My wife came in my room and saw my Jetglo 330 in its open case and commented, "What a beautiful guitar.")




Sorry about that.... I guess I wasn't thinking, as I have a 330 also (with stock "R" tailpiece). As I see it there are two possible options...

1. Install a non-articulated, fixed angle tailpiece. Well, there aren't any ready-made, but this one from Winfield could be modified to accommodate strings; not easy, requires cutting, bending and drilling, but an interesting project for the handy metalworker: https://www.winfieldvintage.com/product ... -tailpiece

2. A few years ago someone posted a photo of an installed (apparently homemade) shallow U-shaped bar (very thick wire) between the bridge and the tailpiece. It was pretty crude looking, but probably did a good job of changing the break angle. A more aesthetic option might be to install a regular stop tailpiece (example):
https://www.allparts.com/collections/ta ... -tailpiece
STOP: Well, I just assessed the space behind the bridge area, and it seems that the center block of wood does not extend beyond the bridge location. The thickness of the guitar body top is about 1/4 in., and I would be wary of the studs eventually working loose and/or out due to the upward (displacing) pressure of the strings going under the stop bar. A couple of guys here are experienced woodworkers and would know. It's a weird option, probably not realistic for most people. (Maybe glued fittings and a homemade, less bulky bar....) I know nothing; just wildly brainstorming. (Some guys install Bigsby B5 trems with wood screws; the studs could work after all.)

I don't know. I guess I'd go for the $50 experimental modified tailpiece linked above. At least this would not require modifying the guitar body. A lot of carefully done work on that adapter would be required; FUBAR a real threat.

[raketenmann]

Hi maxwell
Well drilling is no option into the top, sorry. I also thought about ideas like that. A stoptailpiece souldn‘t even be necessary: i could somehow some sort of a hanger that pulls down the R-Tailpiece. But as I said im still thinking about a no woodwork solution:-)

I actually also used to play banjo and I am still thinking about a banjo tailpiese solution. On the banjo the bridge pressure is very important to the sound snd therefor the tailpieces have a screw to bring it down. Somethong like this could probably work, but it would need some sort of a baseplate, and there it gets complicated again….

Tell me more about that U-shaped bar as this is my original idea, just dont know how to build it….

[sloop_john_b]

Out of curiosity, can you post a photo showing the break angle?

For what it’s worth, while it takes away from the whole quintessential Rickenbacker thing, I’ve always thought this was a surprisingly cool look.

[maxwell]

That bar was just some guy's version of the stop tailpiece, mounted between the bridge and the tailpiece. It looked pretty rustic, but the short-bent ends (that made it a "U") did go into the wood.

The Mastery bridge is anchored directly to the body, so some sort of string repositioning bar attached to that might work (sort of like what you were thinking of???), however the leverage exerted by the string realignment might be too much for a bridge anchored by screws that are only meant to secure the bridge mainly for convenient string changes, tipping the bridge, maybe... (my guess).

I can't think of anything else offhand. I'll be sure to offer more, if some other idea occurs to me.

PS - The baseplate idea seems possible. Anchoring it at/under the bridge might work but anchoring it at the opposite/tailpiece end would be tricky -- again, levering forces might lift the plate up if not anchored at both ends.

I'll study my 330 and maybe I'll get an idea.

[maxwell]

OK, U-shaped bar.... This idea occurred to me. Initially I was hoping I could approach this via the f hole, but when I looked at the guitar, I could see that the tail end was way too far away from the strings. So, I made this mock-up of a U from a wire clothes hanger. Initially I made the "bar" accommodate the 1/4-in. thickness of the bodies top. I found sort of a center block glued to the underside of the face, with a total (face + block) thickness of around 3/4 inches. I had to rebend the wire to accommodate that thickness. But as I slid the longer portion of the wire under the block, there was something else (small rise) in the way, so I had to spread the two parallel wires apart to allow more space to get past that block. Holding the loosely adjusted strings down with a pen helped to allow the upper wire to slide across the tops of the strings. I knew that the wire was way too springy to allow any real string displacement when the strings were tuned up, but I did tighten the low E, A and D -- you can see how the strings are almost straight and not displaced/retained in the desired lower position. I don't know if it would be possible to get a non-flexible U-bar in there with that rise (??? something (could be a groove) past that block. Maybe a screw & nut with intervening spacer connecting the ends of two narrow plates might be an option; loosen, place bar assembly, then tighten. As you can see, this approach would require modifying the pickguard, cutting out a small section out to go around the bar. Buying a new, perhaps cheap replica pickguard, and using that would be the way to go if you were to experiment with this. Anyway, I like fooling around with this sort of thing, even if I have a failure.

Work arrangement, protect your finish!

See the block under guitar body face

Clothes hanger wire mock-up

Holding strings down helps

Bar in place

Three strings tuned up, wire flexes too much

[maxwell]

Better.... The baseplate idea seemed good. To give the guitar a little bling, in keeping with the other chrome parts, I found a large-enough metal camping mirror, 4" wide x 6" long:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/280878178535?h ... R9aQgZOoYQ

Template: the width at the ends of the tabs is 4", the same as the mirror's width

template, use to cut out mirror baseplate/bracket

1/8" x 3" bolt that will slide through the holes in the tabs. The treads will engage the bracket as well as each string; it's not going anywhere when under string tension.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/280878178535?h ... R9aQgZOoYQ

Template/mock up on guitar:

template/mock up

The upper edge of the metal plate slides under the bridge, the lower edge under the R bracket. Position so that the plate is not visible in the R bracket openings. Hold the loosened strings down, slide bolt into plate tab holes. Begin tightening the strings, adjust plate position when there's enough string pressure to hold the plate in place. The plate will lift slightly of the guitar face. Glue small rubber bumpers on the upper surface each corner of the bracket if you want to minimize lift. Place "mole skin" ("moleskin") adhesive bandage material on the underside of the plate. (Of course, you'll have to smooth and polish all sharp edges.) Cutting out the plate will be tedious, bending the tabs with sharp angles will be tricky.

I'm betting that the bridge will stay in place and not lift up. Everything stays in place under string pressure.

[brianeharmonjr]

I've never experienced this problem with a standard R tailpiece but, coming from the Jaguar/Jazzmaster and Bigsby world, I wonder if some sort of variation of a Buzz Stop could be implemented, especially if it could be hidden under the tailpiece. Towner also makes a couple of products to increase downforce for guitars with a Bigsby with a shallow break angle. Neither would be a drop-in for a Ric bridge, but you could replace with a tune-o-matic-style bridge or maybe figure out a way to make your own or make one work?:

Buzz-Stop


Towner Down-Tension bars:

[maxwell]

That's a nice array of devices there; all interesting. I've never seen these before. Thanks for posting.

The third one posted is the elegant, manufactured version of the homemade one I alluded to a few posts ago. If I needed a string break angle correction sort of solution, this is the one I'd go for: nice looking, sturdy, height-adjustable. With Mastery bridge being attached to its baseplate, it should be stable enough, especially since there is no trem/vibrato string action across the bridge (on the OP's guitar).

Like many of us, the OP is reluctant to drill new holes in his guitar. I know I wrestled for the longest while deciding if I was going to install a Bigsby B5 on my Rose Morris Model 1996. The main reason I wanted to do this was because of poor break angle, as I described above. I'm glad I eventually got the vintage/short style Accent spring and kept the Accent on.

I don't have this break angle issue on any guitar now. While I like solving problems, I'm reluctant to invest too much time and money making things for the heck of it. But I had this wild, simple and inexpensive idea to just get a couple of cheap, small silicone suction cups and use these with a horizontal string pressure rod connected between the two. If these don't look too bad, I'll make them look a little better with a black Magic Marker. The next time I'm in Walmart....

[Uffingdon]

Have you tried a simpler approach to curing the resonance problem by just placing a piece of foam under strings near the tailpiece to dampen them, might be worth a try. Not pretty I know but if it works it would just be a matter of finding a better solution.

I had a Mastery on my 350v63 for a short while but it developed a resonance problem, I put the original bridge back on and the problem instantly stopped. I guess that maybe the Mastery bridge can make some guitars much to “lively”.

The two features of the Mastery I liked was the lock down feature and the weight of it adding mass, I came up with a simple solution altering the stock bridge locking it to the base plate and fitted vintage style intonation screws/nuts to add weight, in my opinion it’s equal to what the Mastery has to offer for a fraction of the cost.

Please see thread below:-


viewtopic.php?p=878957&hilit=Rickenback ... ge#p878957

[maxwell]

That’s pretty neat, Uffingdon. I’m wondering about relative pickup heights…. Can string sounds be somewhat muffled when too close to the pickups due to the PUs’ magnets attenuating their vibration? I don’t know… fuzzy recollections of discussions about that stuff.

[raketenmann]

Hey gusy

The OP is back Sorry, I was nailed down with a pretty strong influenza, then came Christmas and everything, sorry for not replying....

I am pretty stoked about all the cool ideas and also the discussion that is going on right now... Sometimes I feel stupid and alone with my guitar related problems - but not so here - thx for taking care!

Espacially a big shout goes out to @maxwell for going nuts with experiments himself. Unfortunatelly I am not a native english speaker and a lot of you descriptions I don't understand, especially the sort of materials or stuff you bought and used in your experiment - but in the End I got the idea!

Right now I am pretty confident that the approach on the townerdown tension bar is gonna be the one solution to go! Actually, I am a polymechanik and would be able to use a milling and turning machine - but unfortunatelly I have no access to a factory, but when I think about it I know a guy who has and probably is willing to help me out creating something like that. I think the Idea to somehow lock it to the baseplate of the mastery bridge looks very simple and easy - no woodwork necessary! I keep you posted!

Someone asked: Why don't use a felt stripe between the bridge and tailpiece to dampen resonances? Answer: I did! right now I have a peace of felt (industrial wool, don't know how you call that in english). This does help making the acoustic sound less weird - but it doesn't solve the problem that energy is getting lost on the bridge and doesn't translate to the body. one more I am pretty confident that the mastery somehow IS NOT A PERFECT SOLUTION. A saddle should be V-shaped to have less problems. U-shaped saddles would be best in an ideal world, but only if the match perfectly to the strings diameter, and this is not the case on the mastery bridge.

Soon I am gonna get my toaster pickups from the Creamery in the UK... I am very excited how these are gonne sound against the Hi Gains!