Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I have been playing 80's vintage 360 series guitars for a few years now and have come to appreciate the high-gain sound as a fairly unique. I recently purchased a 99' 660/6 string. It has Toasters, but not scatter wound. I really love this guitar's feel, neck, and all the other ergonomics, but the pups are a mystery to me. Some settings on my amps that sound fine with high-gains, are driven to feed-back (not the good kind) by the toasters. I know the hip thing to do is to have them un-wound, and I may take that step. But it got me thinking about how someone like yourself who see lots of RIC's would characterize the various incarnations of RIC pick-ups. Has RIC basically conceded that the non scatter wound were a mistake? Also have you ever mixed high-gains and toasters on the same instrument. I'm not a Beatle wanna be, I enjoy an original sound, and expect to use the 660 for some fairly dense distorted sounds as well as for 60's type sounds. Sorry for the length of this question, but I want to try to educate myself in this area.

Just to let you know, I posted a question similar to this early this morning under "guitars". My basic question was concerning the "New" vintage P.U., Hi Gain, and older Vintage (from a few years ago) and what the differences are.

There may end up being a variety of answers both here and under my post???? So you may want check there too.

BTW, I have a 660 12 string on order...will this have the "Scatter Wound" P.U.?

Henry McGuinn in service told me that all of the Toaster pickups are now 'scatterwound'

The original pickups /Toasters that came in the 1950's to 1970 guitars were wound without the use of a counter ,to my knowledge.

In the 1970's the counter was added to gain a better/more consistant pickup.
At the same time the toasters were phased out and the center of the cover cut out to give the HIGH GAIN cover/look.
The bobbins are similar ,the magnets completely different.
The first reissue toasters were wound the same as the high gains.
Only recently have the 'scatterwound' pickups been made .This is to better aproximate the inconsistancies of the older pickups and at the same time remain consistant with their own specs.
That is ...make a pickup with the same resistance reading on an ohm meter.The older ones were all over the place .BUT!!! so was every one else in the business.

I have a Rick 360-12 v64 that i bought from a guy that unwinds the PUs and they sound closer to the 60s Ricks, I havent had it on stage yet so Im not real sure if I will notice the output difference or not....if you like the PUs hot leave them alone...I like the hi-gain blacktop PUs for the Jam or Who lead type stuff...just cause others are unwinding them , doesnt mean its for everyone.....some people sit at home trying to playing Beatles riffs and some get out and gig...so it depends on what you need...TOYS or TOOLS.
good luck
tom

I just saw that, so I'll watch your post too. According to what I know, the switch over to scatter wounds as a standard happened in early 2000, so your new 660 should have scatters.

Thanks for the response Mark - I had heard that story before regarding the reasoning for the scatters. I was actually more interested in hearing your personal characterization between the various incarnations of these PUP's. I am still surprized that the toasters in this 660 feed back so badly on amp settings that the high-gains can handle. I also wanted to see if you had a comment on mixing a high-gain & a toaster on the same guitar.

Tom - love your comments, I agree, I selected the 660 to be a stage guitar, but it's not quite there yet. It's light-weight, great neck, no R tailpiece to mess with on a dark stage, but I have some signature amp settings I don't want to sacrafice. btw - this kind of attitude will get you creamed by Nick Thiel and his beatle-nazis on voxtalks (just kidding Nick, we know it's a religion)

Some of the feedback is not from loose coil windings but rather loose magnet.You must unscrew to examine this but if the magnet can be 'twisted' off (don't do this though)without much force ,then it's a good bet that that is the problem.
I have re-attatched them using several types of adhesives.I do not like to use any of the so called 'Crazy glues' as it makes it tough to re-wind the coil if that ever becomes necessary.

I don't care whether you like any one of the pickups better than another one ...that is personal preference.I am a huge Beatles fan ...but I love Jeff Becks guitar tones way MORE!!!
But that is a totally diferent subject .

Mix toasters and high gains...sure why not .It depends on what you are trying to achieve.

To get classic Byrds/Beatles/Tom Petty tones ...toasters are it.

The high gains are another thing ,go for it.It's not like trying to install a Floyd Rose on a 330 !

That would be criminal.It can't be done ,wrong dimensions.

Thanks again Mark - your expertise is invaluable to this forum. I hate like hell to have to disassemble a brand new guitar's pups but I guess I can take it back to the dealer. Actually they had to call RIC to determine if they were scatters or not, and only one guy there even knew what scatters were, so I'm not hopeful of a lot of experience, but hey I got the piece dirt cheap. If I do decide to have them unwound, who would you recommend and how much should I expect to pay for such a service ?

Before you take it apart ...there is one more piece of the puzzle to look at .

What kind of amp do you play thru?

Tube/Valve ?

Solid State?

If you have a Tube/valve type ...it could be a microphonic tube/valve.

As the quality of tubes is plummeting ,and the sources are narrowing,the quality and demand are getting ...shall I say poor.

I know that they sound great ,but the reality of tubes going away is very real .

And as their quality slips and guitarist think that they will always be here and that maybe I just got a bad one ...think again.

In a world that has lots of Consumer Electronics and here we are sitting at a box with ZERO-NO tubes in it ...what else uses tubes except guitar players?
Really? well that could also be the problem .

Pencil tap the tubes first before you rip apart your guitar .Turn on ther amp and tap the tubes.If they start chirping or make funny noises...that is most likely the problem.

I have a 1997 reissue from the late 80's. They're toasters, and I have no idea if they are scatter wounds. I've played out for years with it using a 50 watt Hiwatt half stack or an old 40 watt Klemt Echollette BS40 with two twelves, both all tube, using only a Rat distortion pedal. I constantly get complements on how great it sounds. I get vintage 60's for Beatles and Who, and punk to grunge like the Sex Pistols to the Foo Fighters. Feedback has never really been an issue.

I suggest you set up minimally (guitar, amp, and distortion box), set what you think sounds good. Stand back from the amp at a distance that the audience will hear and adjust tone. I've seen too many guitarists set up with the sound pelting them at the ankles, thus adjusting in too much treble, then squealing like a stuck pig. Just a thought that might help. Good luck.

Good point Chip ....lots to think about before surgery ....

I'm very comfortable it's not the amp, I'll admit my heresy but I gig regularly with a cover and use a Line6 AX2. I have found the convienience and variety of sounds works for me, plus I use a GR30 synth in the Aux input, this saves me hauling two amps. I keep my tube amps at home for the studio, for a cover band the modeling amp works great. So the settings I utilize are known entities and the high gain settings are the ones that drive the 660 into feedback. Those settings work fine with my Strat or Parker Nitefly. I also tested the settings with my 360/6 w/high gains. I popped the top off the toasters last night and didn't see anything loose, it also convinced me I don't want to try the unwinding procedure myself. I may have to just accept that the 660 won't handle those settings and either revamp them or leave the 660 at home.

okay ...you have the amp thing covered ,I have flextone and leave my tube amps home also ...I love it .

Sounds like a loose magnet or a loose coil winding to me .

You may only have to remove the pickup and squeeze the magnet on firmer.
try that first after the twisting check for loose magnet.

Thanks Mark - I'll try that tonight. Once again I appreciate your time and interest in my situation.

Glad to know you appreciate the modeling amps too. I take a lot of s__t from tube snobs, but once they hear it live they usually shut-up.