Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Have been listening to the RCA studios version of EMH on the CD issue of 5th Dimension. How does McGuinn get that spiky guitar sound? Sounds much more harsh and choppy then the other Byrds recordings apart from maybe some of the stuff off Preflyte. Love the ending on the RCA version too...much more oomph!!

I much prefer the final 5D version......the RCA cut sounds like a good demo, but that's what it sounds like to me - a demo. McGuinn's guitar sounds too distorted for my tastes. Sounds like a crunchy fender twin type sound to me. I know Crosby prefered the RCA version, but I've probably been brain washed for the last 25 years with the 5D released version. I much prefer the heavily prosessed dark crackly sound on 'why' or 'I see you'. Hey but that's just me! Feel free to disagree.......

Ya wanna know how you get the RCA 8 miles high McGuinn tone? First off, a real 60s 360-12 would be nice, gotta have flat strings, and, if you don't believe me, try it on your own Rick 12, you use Neck PU ONLY.I think McGuinn was going for a more classic neck PU mellower sound on that take.But even neck PU alone can have an edge to it.My ears tell me that the better known 8 mi high
version has McGuinn overdubbing himself, playing in unison with himself,using a bit of the neck PU mixed in,but the bridge PU is more dominant.

Thanks guys - I haven't a got a 60's 360 sadly, but the 1980's 360/12 I have got does have factory fitted Toasters so can get a similar tone. Interesting comment about the Fender Twin - I go through a Vox and always assumed the Byrds used Vox too but that posted pic (man look at that STP sticker!) clearly has a Fender head/cab behind. Ooops! Will take your advice Don and have a play with the neck PU. I take it that JMG still had his earlier 360/12 at this point - not the later 370/12 with the Vox tone boost? Am working on the Draft Morning sound too at the minute so, will let you know how I get on with that!!! Thx!

Interesting thread. Despite Roger often being quoted as saying that he only ever used the bridge pick-up, I've always been convinced that the Younger Than Yesterday version of "So You Want To Be A Rock 'n' Roll Star" was played on the middle pickup alone.

I can't separate the classic Byrds sound from Fender amps and JBL speakers, but I am still intrigued by the Vox reference in the August 1967 Guitar Player interview:

"GP: What type of equipment do you use?
CHRIS: Fender Precision Bass and Bassman amp with an extension speaker. I use Fender medium gauge strings. Nylon pick.
ROGER: Rickenbacker 12-string, Vox or Fender amps. Gretsch 6-string."

It has been said the Byrds were painfully loud live. Now I don't know about Vox, but Fender amps get painful when they get loud.

Mark;
Take a closer listen for Roger and middle PU;
Mr.Spaceman
My Back Pages,
Rock and Roll Star
I think there's a couple I'm missing, but it's late, and I'm not focusing....
Jerry;
Tell me about "painful loud" with Fender amps.
First time I saw the Byrds in 1970, I sat in front row, right at Rogers' feet, practically, and he was running the Rick through a Twin, a Super and a Dual Showman XL, all with JBLS.
My ears rang for days, but it was glorious....

LOL...how else to enjoy great rock but painfully loud (Neil Young was the loudest guy I've ever seen, even beating Led Zep).

Be aware of the fact that by the time stuff like "My Back Pages" and "Mr. Spaceman" was recorded, they were done with a totally different Rickenbacker than what you hear on "Turn, Turn, Turn" and 8MH....all these were done when the 1964 Rickenbacker was still a 360/12..This could have more to do with the sound than you might think...

I think that that's what we're agreeing on, aren't we? Although Jim could have mixed his two pickups together when recording "All I Really Want To Do", for example, he could only select individual pickups later on with the Byrd-wired 370/12.

Mark, I agree with you as well, especially on "All I Really Want To Do" where it sounds like both p/ups are on with the treble volume turned back about 1/4 turn...

I hear a slightly mellower sound on "Chimes Of Freedom" too, but the guitar is mixed a bit differently...

Thanks guys! Didn't expect such a good response - finally managed to get the EMH sound I wanted - treble pick-up w/a dash of neck pickup + not using the Vox and using instead my old Traynor Mark III head (master turned up / vol turned down) - seemed to do the trick. Here's a good one for you though...what about Mc Guinn's solo on "It's All Over Now Baby Blue" on the "We have Ignition" CD? Those last few notes...probably the best few seconds in the Byrds canon - but again, a sound I'm having trouble getting! Extra compression maybe? Sustain...I'll leave it up to you!

From McGuinn I learned that EMH, MTM and the rest of the original songs were all recorded on an Epiphone amp with a single 12" speaker. It was just sitting there in the studio and since none of THE BYRDS owned an amp at the time (!), they used it.

Bill

Interesting story Bill. I didn't even know Epiphone made amps! Although the 'sound' was largely achieved through studio processing. I read somewhere, that McGuinn just plugged directly into the desk?

There's pictures on the inside sleeve on the Never Before 80's release showing the Byrds in the studio.

The amps are blackface Fender Dual Showman & Bassmans with large cabs, I think the Dual Showman Reverbs arrived in '68 (or they used a Twin Reverb ) so the reverb might have been added in the mix? It says that tape echo / delay was used on vocals & 12 string parts.