Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

I just reciently purchased a new Rickenbacker 325C58 MG, after many years of wanting one. When I first got it I was very impressed by its looks at first glance. Then after closely examining it and going over it I was a bit put off by the quality. First of all I happened to look under the thumbscrew of the Kauffman Vibrola unit and saw that the thumbscrew had gouged a mark into the high gloss finish. There looked to be no more than a few millimeters of distance from the body to the bottom of the thumbscrew, thus to me negating the use of this Vibrato unless you wanted further damage. Next I noticed after loosening the strings and looking under the Vibrato unit that the springs of the vibrato unit and mounting lugs of the end piece had indented the wood. Also the screw going through the vibrato bracket that is used to attach the strap was also loose and stripped out, it could not be tightened. I took the strap screw out and noticed Rickenbacker had used a fine machine screw thread going into bare wood, this is a no no in woodworking. They should have either press fitted a metal threaded shaft into the wood first or used a coarse thread wood type screw into a smaller drilled hole. I next noticed that one of the tuner nuts on the outside of the headstock must have been tightened too much as it put a 3/8 inch long crazing in the finish from the nut outward, like a cracked glass. When I had loosened the strings all the way I noticed that 5 of the 6 tuners were flopping around loose, so I went to tighten up the little screws holding the brackets only to find out they had stripped into the holes where the had gone. I must say I wasn't too impressed with my first Rickenbacker and wrote John Hall about the issues, after not receiving any reply from Rickenbacker factory on the problem, also sending photo's of the visual defect area. I talked to several people who have had similar problems as I, so I know this isn't an uncommon problem. I only wonder why Rickenbacker doesn't tighten up their quality control so as not to let this stuff out of the factory, and not rely so much on the Rickenbacker name and quality of the past to sell current models today, without the same quality and workmanship. I also own a Korean Gretsch 3140 and a Korean Epiphone Les Paul that runs rings around this Rickenbacker at a fraction of the cost.

Jerry, I see that this is your first post. Welcome.

You have quite a long list of concerns here about your 325C58. Did you buy it at Guitar Center? Was it a floor model, or did you personally pull it out of the case for the first time??

It sounds as though when you bought the guitar, you did so at a "glance" rather than looking the instrument over good before you made the buy. Is this the case?

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Hi John,
Thank you for your welcome. In answer to your question I purchased the 325C58 from Hoboken Vintage Guitar, N.J. who had purchased it from Guitar Center, N.J. It was an internet purchase so I could not visually inspect it prior to my purchase. I was however told it was Mint, Unsold, with case and paperwork. I have owned and played guitars for over 35 years and have quite a bit of experience in knowing what is a production problem verses abuse. I have also owned many guitars with vibrato bars, that you could push or pull without tearing into the finish due to little clearance of hardware between the body and metal. I venture to say if I pulled the Kauffman vibrato assemblies off of other Rickenbacker 325 models, I'd find the same problems. I also have since talked to other owners of these Rickenbacker 325's and they had the same problems, reinforcing my concerns. I took off the Kauffman and will repair the damage myself as I'm experienced in this kind of repair. I'm also dumping the Kauffman for the Bigsby B-5. I know now why Lennon took his off first thing, its kind of a joke. They may look nice but are not functional for any lengthly playing, they simply don't stay in tune, and will destroy your finish. I've heard of people staking the Vibrola so it doesn't move and will stay in tune solely for looks purposes. I feel that defeats the purpose of even having a Vibrato. Anyway I've added some photo's of the damaged areas that are visible. Like I said unless these areas are disassembled and checked out you'll never know if yours is the same way, and I venture to say many probably are. Thanks for your post reply.

First off, your guitar isn't "new", it went through two different dealer's hands and you have know idea where it has been or who has touched it before it even came into your possession. In my opinion, you can't complain about any issues regarding dents, scratches or anything else because you have no real valid argument about a "new" guitar. The factory doesn't ship pieces with stripped out screws or loose hardware, their quality control is insane and I've been there many times over the last few years and seen it for myself. I actually saw several pieces get rejected for various reasons, so I know they are looking at this stuff very clsely before it goes in the box.

Secondly, the dent in the top of your guitar, from the screw that sticks out the bottom of the tail-piece, was caused be somebody trying to use the tail-piece the wrong way. They were using Bigsby style (up and down) instead of side to side, the way it is supposed to be used, that is a user problem, not a manufacturer defect. The indentations from the end bracket are pretty much standard with most of the trapeze style brackets being used by Rickenbacker, including the R tail-piece as well. They usually can be wet sanded out if you know what you are doing.

As far as the factory issue tail-piece that comes with the C58, it is useless as a trem system because the guitar will not stay in tune if it's used, which is why it was fazed out in the first place. The C58 is a replica of a 45 year old idea, I know that the translation on the Japanese literature that describes the C58 has a portion that says the tail-piece is guaranteed to be a bad as the original, so you're preaching to the choir here. Lennon left the tail-piece on his guitar for over ten months and played a load of gigs with it on there, but I'll bet he never used it as a trem though, lol.

Jerry: May I also welcome you to the Rickenbacker Forum. I am sorry about your experience. My questions for you at this point would be, how long did you wait for a response and are you sure that your concerns were seen my Mr. Hall.

RIC is a busy place. My suggestion at this point is that you write Mr. Hall a letter or resend it perhaps to customer service once again. In the long run, I consider that you may feel more welcome at RIC, if you discuss this matter privately, rather than a detailed description on this Forum.

Different models are chosen for a variety of reasons. Some folks will keep the 325C58 stock and others will modify it as soon as it gets in the door. As you point out, the Kauffman vibrato is not the sort of vibrato that many performers would use on this model. This finding has a long history and was one of the reasons why Lennon switched his to the Bigsby.

The 325 is not for everyone, for a number of reasons. If you are determined to Lennonize it further, I know you will find a way. It is regrettable that you could not ask more questions about the 325C58 before its purchase.

Based on your experience, I see a resolution to your current concerns. Why not give RIC another try. Making comments on what they should or should not do publicly may allow you to vent your frustration, however, you may not get the attention of those who can help you at RIC by using the public route in this way.

One issue here may be that the guitar was not purchased from the original dealer. I may be wrong but I don't think Hokoken Vintage Guitar is even a Ric dealer, so there is probably no warrenty coverage. I can relate to your frustration however. I have recently made a somewhat similar purchase, (which has not arrived yet), but it was made clear to me when I was talking to the seller that there was no warrenty on the guitar, (even though the warrenty card is included), as it is basically a used instrument. While I am pretty sure the guitar I have bought is one of the GC ones that arrived at the seller through some route. I realize there may be some issues with it. As it has not been bought from a Ric dealer as a new instrument I am prepared for that fact and will deal with them myself. I'm sure the with the $ saved over a "new" one I will still be happy with it. If I had wanted one in pristine condition then I would have paid the extra dollars, but as I intend to use it this didn't make sense to me. All I have read indicates the the Kauffman is not really usable and was put on for the "retro" effect. Maybe the finish damage it causes is one of the problems with it. As to the strap screw I have a couple of Rics with that type of screw and have had no problems with it, it would be hard to say how the condition of yours was when it left the factory at this point.

I am not near a guitar center so I was not able to search out and purchase one in person which is why I did so online. I will just hope for the best when it arrives as listening to, or reading someone elses description cannot replace your own actual inspection of a guitar.

Hello Peter,
Thanks alot for your welcome, Yes, in answer to your question I had emailed Rickenbacker on the 14th, last week, and have not received any response. I just emailed Mr. Hall yesterday since I didn't hear anything back from my first email, I also sent him photos. As far as taking this up privately, doesn't this defeat the true purpose of a forum? Also I have objectively looked at the Kauffman Vibrola system and there are several ways to manufacture it so it doesn't damage the Guitar and still function properly. I don't understand building a fault into something new that is known to be a problem from past experiences. I like the 325 as far as the looks of the wood, fit and finish, it being a semi hollow body but looking solid and alot lighter, and I prefer the short scale neck. The only problem I have with the 325 is the assembly of the hardware to it, which is out of the customers control. As far as asking more questions prior to purchase, the only issue that I knew about was the Kauffman not staying in tune. The other issues are from owners who did not volunteer the information till I had compared notes with them. In other words they were willing to accept the problems, just to say they owned a Rickenbacker, and may have felt the problems were minor. Thats fine if the guitar was only a 300 dollar one. As far a Lennonizing it, I only want it functional with a functional vibrato and the Bigsby has already proven itself, I have no intentions of changing, control knobs, painting it black, changing bridge, tuners, pickguard etc. As far as my comments I feel they are truthful, documented, with photo's and based on my past experience of 35 years with other guitars. Why would or should I have to do anything privately behind closed doors concerning a consumer product purchase in order to get resolve to a legitimate problem. Had I received the proper information in my quest while researching this model Rickenbacker, from other objective consumers, not those who want to make points with a manufacturer, I probably would have opted for something else. I'm sorry I come from the old school of business and trade, it is what keeps the quality of products produced to their advertised expectations, and the customer should not accept anything less than what they are promised by a manufacturer.

Hi Brian,
I don't know if Hoboken Vintage is an Authorized Dealer but Guitar Center is, and thats where he recieved it from. I'm also not worried about the warranty of it. Limited or conditional warranties are not an excuse for a manufacturer to produce something obviously flawed. If I purchased a guitar with scratches all over it and a warped neck or obvious damage because of missuse I could understand. But the damages I observed were not ones you'd see at first glance or inspection. Except for the hairline crack at the tuner peg. How many guitar dealers that you know will let you see if the screws on the tuners are loose by taking and loosening the strings? Or lifting up the vibrato unit to see if the wood was damaged underneath? How many strap screws have you tested to see if they were tight and not stripped into the wood? Most people don't even check these areas unless they actually have a problem in that area. I never would have seen the damage by the Kauffman unit, or the loose tuners, had I not changed the strings. Also as I said I have found individuals who in fact bought from Rick dealers who had the same problems with this model, theirs weren't considered used. I also do not know the condition of my guitar when it left the factory, but I worked at a factory, not for guitars, but with electro-mechanical units, and I would bet you a dollar to a doughnut if I inspected some of these Rick 325's off the line, I could find similar problems. Manufacturing is a numbers game, and I'm very familiar with the end product. There are alot of hands responsible for assembling and not everyone treats the product the same way, and sometimes problems are not addressed properly at factories because the goods have to get out the door. I know when a hole is drilled to large in wood for a machine thread to go into, and when its proper to use a machine thread and when not. I also know when a screw into wood is tightened to the point of stripping into the wood, and when a piece of hardware doesn't have the proper clearence to not damage something under normal use. Because an item is considered used for the reasons of not buying from a dealer and spending hundreds more, doesn't mean its any better from a dealer and paying full price. I dont't know anyone who pays full retail for anything, and because you buy a name brand name item at a discount store should not mean you get less of a product than if you purchased from a so called authorized dealer.

Hi Nick,
I believe I can complain about dents, scratches etc. when they were done during assembly or the cause of hardware being put on, as you said in the tailpiece bracket, this is how they all are, to me thats trash and unacceptable. As far as new or used again thats a cop out, read my last post. As far as the Kauffman vibrato, the clearance I measured from the bottom of the thumbscrew to the top of the body was less than a quarter inch, making it super easy to damage the wood by so much as tapping the vibrato arm. To me its an accident waiting to happen. You also stated about being at the factory and seeing guitars getting rejected for various reasons, well guess what, one got out, probably even more. I also don't feel I should have to do repairs on something that was not made right to begin with.

Hello again

This is my last post on this so I will not reply again. I guess we all have different expectations. One item to clarify though. I don't recall saying "full list" in connection with buying a "new" one. I was trying to differentiate between regular discount and clearance/used price. In my experience when I buy items at clearance/used they often come with some issues re missing parts, cosmetic defects, etc.
As to the reseller issue I guess that is up to you,them and Ric to resolve re warranty. Myself I would not expect a warranty, but as I said we all have different expectations and that is only my opinion, I will leave judgement and implementation on those expectations to others who obviously have much more knowledge in the field than I. As well I don't know the details of your transaction, nor I guess do I want to.

Hi Brian,
I did not mean to infer you mentioned paying full list in connection with buying a new one, I said that, because most dealers charge that, or slight discounts. I also don't expect an item offered as used or clearance to be perfect, but I do when the item is presented as Mint, Unsold condition. As far as the warranty issue, I don't expect this to be taken care of under warranty either, at this point I think I'd be safer to take care of these problems myself and to my own expectations. As you said we all have different expectations, mine is to get what I paid for.

It was the dealer who presented the item as being mint, a dealer who bought it from another dealer? What was the date of manufacture on this guitar?

Jerry, in your reply to me you posted:

"...In answer to your question I purchased the 325C58 from Hoboken Vintage Guitar, N.J. who had purchased it from Guitar Center, N.J. It was an internet purchase so I could not visually inspect it prior to my purchase. I was however told it was Mint, Unsold, with case and paperwork..."

Since Guitar Center was the original selling dealer of your 325C58 and subsequently sold it to Hoboken Vintage, your instrument could be interpreted as a used guitar, since HV is the first owner. If you consider your guitar to be "new and in unsold condition", your main issue should be with Hoboken Vintage in terms of misrepresentation, if you feel the guitar you received was not as it was described. Is there an approval policy?

It is impossible for RIC to guarranty the integrity of their instruments once they leave the factory, so if the guitar was 'on the rack', who knows who tried it out?? My own 325C58 was shop-worn, bought from a GC in the DC area. For the deal I got, I wasn't all that concerned. If you were able to buy your 325C58 for $1500 or under, you did well.

Hello Nick,
The date of manufacture I believe to be 2003, my serial number is 0317151. Yes, I got it from a dealer who bought it from another dealer. I contacted Hoboken Vintage and they told me to contact Guitar Center where he bought it as he said he wasn't an authorized dealer, and guitar center said take it up with Rickenbacker as thats who the warranty is with.

Hi John,
I did contact Hoboken Vintage and was told that my questions should be directed to who he purchased it from, being Guitar Center, and was in turn told that the warranty was with Rickenbacker. Like I said in my first post, the guitar looked great until I really got into it and looked it over more. I just felt that the things I found wrong with it were due to manufacturing rather than a missuse issue. It was by no means what I consider to have been shop worn. Its a beautiful guitar like I said but there are flaws in the assembly of it, hardware to wood, and design problems of the Kauffman mounting being so close to the wood as to damage it. I again am not looking for warranty work to be performed on it, just merely stating problems I found on what I considered to be a new guitar. I have purchased used guitars that didn't have these type of problems.